Quote Originally Posted by Stefan-A View Post
Well, that snake may be an exception that's not acknowledged by the keeper as one. He may take that one case into consideration and completely overlook the 99 others that lived a significantly shorter life under the same conditions, compared to the other group.

That's something that people do frequently. People take one or a few cases that seem to confirm what they expect and completely ignore or downplay the cases that either don't confirm the theory, or outright disprove it. Examples would be to allow cases of mistreatment, or differences in the skills of the keepers in a comparison between two housing solutions.

Unless the risk of confirmation bias has been eliminated, nothing has really been proven.

People also suck at noticing statistically significant differences.
I have a hard time believing that 1/100 snakes are kept successfully in a rack system. If someone has gone to the effort of having a rack system it's generally because they have a large number or are breeding. In either case the owner knows enough about the animal to understand basic husbandry and follow through on its basic needs. The idea that the snake would die simply because it doesn't have a large cage with branches logs and rocks is simply ******** if I'm going to be honest.

I also fail to see how branches/rocks/a large cage would significantly increase a snakes lifespan, since they ARE NOT essential to the snakes life. It simply goes against the basic understanding of the snake itself to claim it lives a shorter life based upon those factors, because the snake does not "think". In terms of dismissing other cases, I'm not at all. I've seen baby snakes in racks die because they don't eat, but then again, baby snakes die all the time, some never start to eat regardless of conditions. However, look at the people who keep snakes in tubs/racks, they do so because they have the large number and understand the snake. Look at how many ****** middle class individuals go out and purchase a fancy cage, fancy lights, heat pad, this and that, but FAIL to meet the snakes basic needs? I'm not saying anyone here is ********, but it's for examples sake.

Give 2 super experienced keepers 10 baby garter snakes, one with racks, one with large terrariums/enclosures, in both situations the snakes will end up about the same, because the factors determining the snakes healthiness are simple: food, water, heat, humidity, light. Nothing else matters or will define how well the snake grows or lives. If you want to argue a puppy kept in a house with toys will develop better than a puppy in a cage sure, I'm all for that, however, puppies have significantly higher levels of intelligence than a snake.

Quote Originally Posted by kibakiba View Post
I'm not comparing them to humans exactly. An opinion is an opinion. Snakes can get fat, and thus need exercise. Its the same with all animals if you feed them and feed them and they never move, eventually they become a fat, boring lump. I got into garters because they are more active, they move and from my experience they need to move. I don't really care what your experience is with them. My garters move around a lot. It seems cruel to put them in a tiny container and say that they're happy.
My snakes are well fed, they move a lot after eating and they have muscles, what happens when something doesn't use it's muscles? They disappear. They have to work their muscles if they're to stay strong.

Again, this is my opinion. If you don't like it, then too bad. My snakes are 100% healthy in their large, spacious and decorated tanks.
Snakes get fat because of OWNERS. Again, take a look at the way the snake reacts in nature, they are opportunistic feeders. If they get a chance to eat, and eat a lot of it, they will, because they don't know when the next meal will be. That's what makes snakes so fascinating, the ability to eat a huge meal, then go months without food. Stick the snake in a tiny enclosure and feed it over and over, the snake will rarely turn down food, of course it will be fat, its instincts are to eat because who knows when next meal is! Any snake keeper who offers as much food as the snake can eat daily is just asking for health problems, and probably knows absolutely nothing in regards to reptile husbandry in general.

Again, the snake is moving in your enclosure because there is some XYZ requirement that is not being met by YOU the provider. We use the same type of saying in the varanid keeping group: if your monitor is at the front of its cage, constantly trying to get out, it doesn't want to play, it's not being taken care of right and needs its husbandry re-evaluated.

Also, I never claimed my snake was "happy" in his small cage. I'm stating snakes DO NOT HAVE EMOTION. The snake is not "happy" the snake does not have feelings, emotion, love, care, any of that. All of those features belong to social mammals, not solitary reptiles. The snakes needs are being met, and it is content on living its natural life hiding in its safe box until it's next meal. Also in terms of "not working muscles" I have yet to see this in any tub-raised individuals. I can safely say you can take my tub raised bull snake, or pine snake, up against most constrictors and they'll give them a run for their money, because despite sitting in a tub almost all their lives, except for educational shows, they have a tremendous amount of power.

I'm not trying to be harsh, however the idea that a snake is "happy" is both ridiculous and stupid.