Another intergrade theory: T. elegans X T.s.? = T.s. concinnus?

[Steven@HumboldtHerps]

Most of us on the forum know the typical features of individual species and ssp. The following pics (I may have posted some before) are of more anomalous specimens. Would love to hear you input.

This one has some infernalis traits

The head is very sirtalis; rear chin shields slightly longer than front

But look at the top of the head. The only snakes that get the drab olives around here are terrestris or ordinoides.

[Steven@HumboldtHerps]

Love this one! Looks like a typical terrestris at first, but note the small head. T. ordinoides is not supposed to range this far south. Labials match ordinoides, but I don't rely on scale counts in this area anymore... Habitat was typically ordinoides as well.


I am pretty sure this is a terrestris, but I have never seen such light lateral/ventrals on this ssp. before...


The crystal ball says infernalis, but it's an unusual pattern. And look! It had terrestris' red flecking...

[Steven@HumboldtHerps]

Here are 2 different snakes from the same location. The first screams fitchi! (Del Norte fitchis often have bright orange-yellow dorsal stripes). The second snake, however, looks like a total of mix between fitchi and terrestris.

[snakeman]

Nice shots!You got me with what any of them are.I think they all intergrade together in the cali area.

[drache]

fun thread
I love all the photos
thanks guys

[ConcinusMan]

Love this one! Looks like a typical terrestris at first, but note the small head. T. ordinoides is not supposed to range this far south. Labials match ordinoides, but I don't rely on scale counts in this area anymore... Habitat was typically ordinoides as well.
Looks like ordinoides to me^^^ Lord knows I've seen enough of them.

I am pretty sure this is a terrestris, but I have never seen such light lateral/ventrals on this ssp. before...
^^^Might be slightly out of the norm for your area, but I say your first impression is correct. That base color and striping is actually not uncommon at all.

The crystal ball says infernalis, but it's an unusual pattern. And look! It had terrestris' red flecking...

Hmmm... I would say infernalis but that dorsal color/flecks makes me wonder.

[Steven@HumboldtHerps]

The neat thing about the ordinoides pic is that Northwesterns aren't supposed to be found this far south (25+ miles!)

[guidofatherof5]

Once again, very nice photos.