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  1. #1
    Domos Ophiusa gregmonsta's Avatar
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    Question What's the difference .... ?

    Between radix radix .... and radix haydeni?

    It seems the main visual difference I can judge from pictures is a possibly stronger definition between colours and striping in haydeni.
    Keeping - 'Florida blue' sirtalis, concinnus, infernalis, parietalis, radix, marcianus and ocellatus.

  2. #2
    Forum Moderator Stefan-A's Avatar
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    Re: What's the difference .... ?

    The radix subspecies are no longer recognized.

    But, once upon a time: "The eastern plains garter snake, Thamnophis radix radix, was characterized by possessing 19 scale rows on the neck and 154 or fewer ventral scales. The western plains garter snake, Thamnophis radix haydeni, differed by having 21 or more scale rows on the neck and 155 or more ventral scales."

    HerpNet.net - Iowa Reptiles and Amphibians - Plains Garter Snake - Thamnophis radix

  3. #3
    Moderator adamanteus's Avatar
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    Re: What's the difference .... ?

    Haydeni was generally paler and had cleaner markings, but as Stefan says, it's no longer recognised.
    In my gallery is a T.r.haydeni from back in the days when they existed!
    James.

  4. #4
    Domos Ophiusa gregmonsta's Avatar
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    Re: What's the difference .... ?

    It's a shame because there was a good visual stereotype to go by ... did a scale count anyway (nevermind the integredation that's commonplace in the wild) (ref. - HerpNet.net - Iowa Reptiles and Amphibians - Plains Garter Snake - Thamnophis radix) ... I definately have radix radix lol .... J was not amused
    Keeping - 'Florida blue' sirtalis, concinnus, infernalis, parietalis, radix, marcianus and ocellatus.

  5. #5
    Moderator adamanteus's Avatar
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    Re: What's the difference .... ?

    Here she is...



    Please excuse the poor quality, it's been scanned from a paper photograph... very old-fashioned!
    James.

  6. #6
    Forum Moderator Stefan-A's Avatar
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    Re: What's the difference .... ?

    Which scales did you count?

  7. #7
    Domos Ophiusa gregmonsta's Avatar
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    Re: What's the difference .... ?

    Neck rofl .... didn't even contemplate the ventrals . It's a great pic James ... think Gijs and Sabine's old radix was one? ... the big gray girl they had a while back?
    Keeping - 'Florida blue' sirtalis, concinnus, infernalis, parietalis, radix, marcianus and ocellatus.

  8. #8
    Moderator adamanteus's Avatar
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    Re: What's the difference .... ?

    Quote Originally Posted by gregmonsta View Post
    It's a great pic James ... think Gijs and Sabine's old radix was one? ... the big gray girl they had a while back?
    The scale count is unreliable, I guess they decided there is no real difference between the the two, just regional variation, hence the reclassification. I have the grand-daughter of Sabines big grey..... not typical haydenii.
    James.

  9. #9
    Moderator adamanteus's Avatar
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    Re: What's the difference .... ?

    Anyway... back to topic... as Stefan rightly says, the sub-species of radix are no longer recognised officially. When you find one of those paler (greener) well marked individuals, that would have been haydenii at one time!
    James.

  10. #10
    Forum Moderator aSnakeLovinBabe's Avatar
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    Re: What's the difference .... ?

    a guy on a forums I used to visit (its gone now) had the most beautiful, stunning, brightly colored radix I had ever layed eyes on. She was very pale, but contrasted by bright brilliant colors, sharp black spots and a stripe that faded from red, to orange, to yellow. Like, my jaw dropped when I saw her. At one point, i bet she was classified as one!
    Mother of many snakes and a beautiful baby girl! I am also a polymer clay artist!


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