Thamnophis sirtalis pallidulus controversy.................

[Snakers]

The maritime garter snake, a very little known species of the garter snakes has been brought up several times throughout this forum. The real controversy is should this "species" of snake really be a subspecies? I myself think it is any ordinary eastern garter snake without the back stripe, I'd like to here other peoples opinions on this snake.

[ConcinusMan]

It is a subspecies of Thamnophis sirtalis. Hence the third name. It is distinct morphologically and geographically from eastern garters. That qualifies it to be a subspecies. But yes you are right, it is basically just an eastern garter, it's just that it is genetically distinct and geographically separated. That is all that is needed to qualify as a subspecies.

[Stefan-A]

That they look similar, does not mean that they belong to the same subspecies. It could be an indicator that they do, but it's not evidence for it by any means.

The only rational position on this issue, is on the fence. Provided of course that there isn't a paper out there dealing with this exact issue and answers that question by referencing DNA evidence.

[ConcinusMan]

Interesting in depth article on maritimes here:

Ecology and Morphology of Thamnophis sirtalis pallidulus (Maritime Garter Snakes) on Georges Island, Nova Scotia | Northeastern Naturalist | Find Articles at BNET

[Stefan-A]

Interesting in depth article on maritimes here:

Ecology and Morphology of Thamnophis sirtalis pallidulus (Maritime Garter Snakes) on Georges Island, Nova Scotia | Northeastern Naturalist | Find Articles at BNET

I skimmed through it. Doesn't say much about the subspecies, just some interesting observations about the Georges Island population.

[ConcinusMan]

Yeah, well I had it bookmarked and thought it was interesting.

[Stefan-A]

Well, it is interesting.

[ConcinusMan]

The Melanistic Garter Snakes of Georges Island

[Tyrel26]

Thats the link I brought up a while back; since then I contacted the guy that did the majority of the studies and he was far from helpful. I asked a couple questions but when I got a reply from him he had ignored my questions and said that if I find a melanistic garter snake he wanted it.

[Snakers]

The thing is how can we state that the "maritime" garter snake is not just an eastern, i have caught several easterns that are nearly identical to a so called maritime but yet im out of their range............What i'm trying to say is that we don't have enough evidence that the Maritime is not just an eastern.