Garter Diet Question

[RoccoIsMyBuddy. :)]

The pet stores i have went to told me that pinkies weren't something that garters eat. Which everyone told me that's not true. But is it really?

[adamanteus]

It's not true. Garters will happily eat pinkies, although it is undoubtedly not good to use pinkies exclusively. Variety is best.

[RoccoIsMyBuddy. :)]

What is a good variety for them? I'm new at this whole thing. lol.
I feed them nightcrawlers and little frogs, which i also heard they could get parasites from frogs.

[bkhuff1s]

I cut up salmon from walmart and feed that to mine with a pinky every now and then

[GarterGeek]

I feed my garters nightcrawlers and pinkies. Sometimes I'll take the risk of parasites and give them a salamander or small frog. A lot of people feed their garters guppies. (goldfish aren't a good source of food)

[adamanteus]

I use salmon and trout, bought from the supermarket, as a staple. This diet is supplemenred with pinkies and earthworms (night crawlers). Both salmon and trout, although 'safe' in so far as they don't contain thiaminase, are quite fatty fish. As previously stated Goldfish are all bad and should not be used.

[GradStudentLeper]

The pet stores i have went to told me that pinkies weren't something that garters eat. Which everyone told me that's not true. But is it really?

In the wild, none but some Western Terrestrial garters do (Thamnophis elegans will sometimes eat rodents) and I would argue feeding them pinkies is a bad idea, because bluntly, everything has parasites, and pinkies may contain parasites that the snakes have not evolved to manage, while the ones they get from fish and frogs they HAVE.

Host-parasite interactions folks. The parasite, unless it is a wierd hyperspecialist (which exist, but are more rare than non-hyperspecialists) are much more able to host-jump than the host is to be able to defend against the parasite.

Additionally, I am not convinced that pinkies provide the right nutrition for a fish and frog eating snake, and at min are far too fatty for a snake to eat unless it is a natural rodent eater, especially considering the frequency at which they feed in captivity. Obese snakes are not healthy snakes.

As a result, I feed my snakes (both my Nerodia and my Thamnophis) a combination of small fish (of various species) and tadpoles/frogs. I have started a bullfrog and leopard frog breeding project (as part of my research, but I will produce WAY more tadpoles than I will ever use and what IACUC does not know cant hurt me) and that should yield me parasite free tadpoles, and soon will start the much easier project of breeding Guppies.

However I am also not convinced that thiaminase is a problem for fish eating snakes. They are not feeding on trout and salmon in the wild (Ok, T. atratus does), but rather on shad, minnows, etc. Fish that are high in thiaminase. The fish actually HAS thiamine in its system. Thiaminase is present in order to break down excess. What matters is not the amount of thiaminase, but rather the reaction rate with thiamine in the time the enzyme has to operate. A fish that is still alive, no problem. The snake's digestion will break down the enzyme like it breaks down all other proteins, leaving plenty of thiamine to be absorbed by the snake. Keeping the fish frozen is the problem, because even with the slowed down reaction rate, the enzyme is still active and has sufficient time to break down thiamine, leaving your snake with a deficiency. Granted, Goldfish are far too fatty, but live minnows (like rosy reds, or sthe stuff you catch in a trap), crappy, and other small fish... no problem.

[DrKate]

Also if you feed strips of salmon/trout/tilapia fillet, your snakes are missing out on the bones and guts which they'd normally get from whole prey, so you need to do some kind of supplementing at least with calcium powder and maybe also vitamin powder.

Frogs are a major prey source for wild garters, at least in areas where there are a lot of frogs. There are some parasites - notably lungworms, it seems - that can be carried by frogs and passed to snakes. There is a WIDE variety of opinion on feeding frogs, there are whole threads on it that you can check out.

One other option for whole prey that a lot of folks here use are frozen silversides (small fish), which you'll find at aquarium specialty stores. In my area even Petco, Pet Club, etc. sell them in their fish departments.

[adamanteus]

Valid points. But in 'the real world' how many of us can set fish traps or start a frog breeding project? It's unrealistic. We are a group of hobbyists looking for the best way to care for our charges. I think what Ashley is asking for here is good advice on a readily available source of healthy food for her pet Garter Snake.

[GradStudentLeper]

Valid points. But in 'the real world' how many of us can set fish traps or start a frog breeding project? It's unrealistic. We are a group of hobbyists looking for the best way to care for our charges. I think what Ashley is asking for here is good advice on a readily available source of healthy food for her pet Garter Snake.

Breeding guppies in huge numbers is easy, you need a starting colony of Live Bearers that you can get in any mid-range fish store, and an aquarium with a decent filtration system, oh and you need brine shrimp, also obtainable from any mid range aquatics store.

You can also get massive numbers of tadpoles and other feeder organisms in bulk from biological supply companies. I dont know how easy that is in the UK, but there are dozens of Bio Supply companies in the US that ship.

mmm tadpoles

They are even cheaper than pinkies (particularly the xenopus)

As a matter of fact, biological supply companies can make it easier to add certain species to your personal reptile or amphibian collections. Some species because they are not popular on the pet trade cannot easily be found at expos or shops, but they are LOVED in classroom or research settings... But I digress.

Point being, the organisms I suggest as feeders are readily available, one just needs to be willing to take an extra step and know where to look, which in my estimation is no worse than scenting or otherwise trying to trick your snake into eating something it would not otherwise consume.