Why isnt there a chart for breeding different varieties of T. Sirtlais sirtalis here?

[Frenchie]

Hi all members just wondering why no one has put up a chart on breeding variety morphs of T. Sirtalis sirtalis. If someone can it would be neat for everyone ;-).What do you all think about that?

[chris-uk]

Pah. Morphs. Give me a normal anytime.

... You did ask what we all thought. I suppose one of the reasons there's no chart is because unlike other species of snake breeding morphs isn't the be all and end all for many garter keepers. That and the number of morphs in captivity isn't actually that great.

[guidofatherof5]

Here are a couple of our member's websites. Hope this helps.

Garter Snake Morph

Scott Felzer's Garter Snakes, specializing in aberrant garters

[d_virginiana]

Plus it seems like most garter morphs are either pretty simple to get (can't think of any that would take more than two generations with the right snakes) or they're line-bred traits.

[Frenchie]

lol what I meant is there should be a chart on breeding, example if you take a melanistic & breed back to a normal what do you get & so on& so forth that kind of chart ,but thx for all your answers :-)

[BLUESIRTALIS]

lol what I meant is there should be a chart on breeding, example if you take a melanistic & breed back to a normal what do you get & so on& so forth that kind of chart ,but thx for all your answers :-)

melanistic x normal (non het) = normal 100% het melanistic. The same goes for any simple recessive trait. Most garter morphs are recessive except for a few that are codom! Codom means you will get visuals in the first generation. See below for the list of codoms that I can think of at the moment. I'm sure i'll leave some off so if you see something missing feel free to chime in.

EASTERNS:
flame, born visual
erythristic, some color up over time.
anery / black and blue phase, mohr, alexander, and west Virginia strain some darken up over time

CHECKEREDS:
pastel, born visual

PLAINS
red plains, some color up over time
I think the blue axanthic plains is codom, but it's a little more complicated so maybe scott or jeff will chime in on that one.

[Jeff B]

Pah. Morphs. Give me a normal anytime.

... You did ask what we all thought. I suppose one of the reasons there's no chart is because unlike other species of snake breeding morphs isn't the be all and end all for many garter keepers. That and the number of morphs in captivity isn't actually that great.

This is the kind of unnecessary crap that I am talking about. Chris goes out of his way to bash morphs and that wasn't even what the original poster was asking about. Why people feel the need to run down the morphs around here is beyond my comprehension. I don't have any desire to run down normals.
Then that triggers Lora to post this nonsensical statement "Plus it seems like most garter morphs are either pretty simple to get (can't think of any that would take more than two generations with the right snakes) or they're line-bred traits."
Two generations is 4 years of hard work and dedication, but she doesn't know any better.

[chris-uk]

Jeff, the question was asked why there wasn't a chart on this forum. The simple answer is that there isn't a chart detailing morphs because the people who are active on the forum prefer to keep and breed the variety that has evolved in nature across the numerous garter species. The keepers who are into producing morphs seem to me to just show up when they have something to sell or something new to show off. Personally, from what I've seen of the morph mentality in royal python breeding it destroys the interest in the hobby of the snakes themselves and turns the interest into "what cool colour can I get the babies of my snake to come out as".
Rather than bashing me and anyone else that would dare to voice the opinion that morphs aren't of any interest how about providing some useful information in answer to the original post? There must be information about morphs and I accept it is something that other people are interested in, unfortunately the people interested in it don't post regularly on this forum so their views are often not represented.

[BLUESIRTALIS]

Hey Chris don't get me wrong I love normals, but I also love morphs as well! Garter snakes has always been my favorite species of snake since I was a kid and as I got older I started keeping other species, but when I stumbled upon Scott's article in reptiles magazine I was blown away at the colors and morphs he produced. That is one of the things that brought me back to garters. Not that I don't love the normals, but it is nice to produce something different and also keep in mind that this is your opinion on morphs and that the majority of the hobby likes morphs. I'm not bashing you or anyone else just stating my opinion. I remember when Royal pythons were considered beginner snakes and were not very popular and then a few morphs popped up and boom they took the whole reptile hobby by storm. As far as keepers into producing morphs I know of several including myself that are active on here pretty much everyday. I will try to put something together when I get time. Right now between working 55-60 hours a week, My sons baseball practice and games, and practicing and playing music at church keeps me pretty busy and on top of that I have over 75 snakes to tend too! lol! I may have to cut back after this year because I don't have much time anymore and to think it's almost time for babies and grass mowing which takes me 5 hours!

Jeff, the question was asked why there wasn't a chart on this forum. The simple answer is that there isn't a chart detailing morphs because the people who are active on the forum prefer to keep and breed the variety that has evolved in nature across the numerous garter species. The keepers who are into producing morphs seem to me to just show up when they have something to sell or something new to show off. Personally, from what I've seen of the morph mentality in royal python breeding it destroys the interest in the hobby of the snakes themselves and turns the interest into "what cool colour can I get the babies of my snake to come out as".
Rather than bashing me and anyone else that would dare to voice the opinion that morphs aren't of any interest how about providing some useful information in answer to the original post? There must be information about morphs and I accept it is something that other people are interested in, unfortunately the people interested in it don't post regularly on this forum so their views are often not represented.

[chris-uk]

I accept that there are many keepers who are interested in morphs, and don't feel bashed by you at all. Jeff's attitude on the other hand was directed and disregarded my opinions as "crap" and despite his assertion that I go out of my way to bash morphs if you look in the threads with photos of morphs you don't find posts from me saying how ugly I think they are. There's actually one or two morphs I like the look of, but I wouldn't go out of my way to keep them.

At the end of the day there are many ways in which herpetoculture can be fascinating, I happen to think that a snake's behaviour is more fascinating than the colour of its skin, but each to their own.

I'm so interested in genetics, so will be interesting to see what can be put together in response to the original question.