WC vs CB

[@ndy]

Hi All

I see allot of snakes are WC and I have been wondering, can you collect garters freely in the USA?

Here in SA all our indigenous snakes are protected and you need special permits to keep indigenous species, some are you are not even permitted to keep!

So here is my Question, can we list Pros and Cons between WC and CB?

Can everyone list there Pros and Cons for keeping WC vs CB

Ill start

CB

1. Pro - Snakes are healthy 99%
2. Pro - Parents are Known
3. Pro - Snakes are disease free 99%
4. Pro - Age known 99%
5. Pro - Known gene pool (sometimes)
6. Con - limited Gene pool

WC

1. Con - Snake may carry disease
2. Con - age unknown
3. Con/Pro - Unknown gene pool

[-MARWOLAETH-]

Taking animals out of the wild affects those that feed on them and those that are eaten by them.
Most don't adapt to captivity.
Taking too much can reduce genetic variation in population giving them less of a chance of survival long term.

@ndy,do you have any pics of the native South African herps?

[infernalis]

WC

Pro - Less likely inbred
con - Get caught gathering on my property and risk bodily injury by angry landowner

CB

pro - No risk of angering landowners
con - inbreeding likely

[@ndy]

Not my Photos all photos from google, i don't have permits to keep locals, i only keep CB exotics

Lamprophis capensis



Puff adder



Spotted Skaapsteker



Cape Cobra



And there are many many more local species.

[@ndy]

WC

con - Get caught gathering on my property and risk bodily injury by angry landowner

Now that I Like!!

[infernalis]

Now that I Like!!

My "natural vivarium" is 40 acres, and I don't allow intruders.

I feel I can learn so much more observing them in the wild, as captivity denies many behaviours that are natural.

No greater thrill than seeing the same specimen show up season after season.

[ConcinusMan]

I would say that most of them around here do adapt to captivity rather quickly. The ones that don't are the minority.

I think the main reasons WC get a bad rap is the way they are collected and marketed. You can't just gather up as many as you can, throw them in overcrowded tubs, ship them right out, and expect them to make decent captives.

What I do is only get a few at a time so I can monitor them closely and not overcrowd them, watching for signs of illness and making sure they all accept food regularly. Any that habitually refuse to eat or eat only sporadically get released back where I found them. Those that appear healthy, don't stress out, etc., then get medicated (two different meds) for internal parasites, which they do carry 99% of the time.

[SilasBannook]

I would like to add the following Pros for wild caught

WC Pros
Pro - Cheap way to enable new people to learn about these amazing creatures
Pro - Provides strong genes to CB breeding pool (cite the challenge with San Francisco Garters in Europe)

I know I would never have invested in a snake as a pet initially. Since having cared for my initial snakes I am totally hooked and have shared my new found passion with my kids and even done several presentations in their elementary classrooms. I think that is a very big Pro for support of wild caught snakes.

{Edit} - I see Infernalis already mentioned the strengthening of genes... I suppose I think that as worth mentioning twice.

[Stefan-A]

WC, con: Collected irresponsibly both from an animal welfare standpoint and a nature conservation standpoint.
WC, con: Extremely high mortality rate. For every WC ending up as a thriving pet, dozens die.
WC, con: Mistreatment common. Cheap animals, indifferent owners.
WC, con: Prevents domestication. Believe it or not, captivity exerts selective pressure on the animals we keep.

Few animals are inbred to a degree that would warrant WC. When it happens, it's typically intentional and easily avoidable.

[Selkielass]

I'd guess like to add the category 'self caught'.
Most of my snakes are self caught. In Michigan a fishing and small game hunting license allows me to have 5 non-protected native snakes.
I sometimes gift some of my catch to others, just as I share other wild game with friends and family.

The animals I bring home are often injured, and I have learned a lot from these guests. Those who seem to adapt well to captivity get caring homes. Those that don't have are returned to suitable habitats.

I have three captive born snakes. I know nothing about the parentage, genetic history, purity or health before I found them- pet trade animals are as much a mystery as wild caught.

I have had detrimental approximately 30 snakes pass thru my care. I've been fortunate enough to have had only two death- one badly cat mauled. The second stillborn. Over half of the captive born babies I have given to others have failed. For unknown reasons, to thrive.

I don't think its a simple equation.