wild garters cross breeding in the wild.

[setfree]

Hey guy's! I was wondering if any of you know if a garter of one species would naturally cross breed with another species in the wild. Like say a red-sided garter would mate with a radix? I don't think they would but I just wanted some other opinions.

Thanks!

[guidofatherof5]

I can't say I've heard of a T.s. parietalis X T.radix hybrid/intergrade but with overlapping ranges it possible.
Then again I know that Thamnophis has a wide range of hemipenis design(shapes and sizes) so I wondering if this eliminates the chance of hybrids in many overlapping ranges.

Good question to bring up for discussion.

[thamneil]

I remember Kantar mentioning something about a cemetery here in Manitoba that has radix/parietalis hybrids. Never been there but I'm quite curious. I'll have to check in with him about that.

[Eight]

I would be rather surprised if it wasn't possible, even with different hemipenis design. When you think of the crazy hybrids that some people have decided to create, like bloodballs, you can imagine it would be rather straight forward with garters. But then again garters else a completely different species and boids are classed as primitive snakes so I don't know if they abide by different rules when it comes to hybrids.

Something to think about for the day though. Have many garter hybrids been found naturally in tin wild?

[kibakiba]

Bloodballs sounds pretty painful... I'm happy I'm not a guy!

[Eight]

Thanks. I now have many painfull images in my head involving various amounts of blood, balls and Pythons...

[kibakiba]

Well the solution is simple, don't stick a python there.

[EasternGirl]

Ha ha ha...you guys never fail to crack me up. I would think that there must be occurances of garters crossbreeding in the wild. I wonder if any of the garter species or subspecies could be a product of crossbreeding at some point in the evolutionary chain...

And Steve...thank you for the info on the different hemipenises. I had no idea that different species had anatomical differences in regard to genitalia.

[chris-uk]

And Steve...thank you for the info on the different hemipenises. I had no idea that different species had anatomical differences in regard to genitalia.

It's a picture from the garter bible, you haven't been reading your chapters well enough have you Marnie?

Most occurrences of cross-breeding I remember reading about have been between sub-species and therefore intergrades, @s opposed to crosses between species to make hybrids. I'm sure some interbreeding does eventually lead to a new species forming, but it's not going to stem from a single hybrid litter, more a case of overlapping ranges leading to frequent hybridisation. This also relies on the hybrid having some sort of advantage.

[Invisible Snake]

I've read in "The General Care and Maintenance of Garter Snakes & Water Snakes" by David Perlowin,

"The differences of opinion as to the number of subspecies center around whether T. cyrtopsis has integrated with the Mexican garter snake, T. eques, or whether they evolved separately."

^ Direct quote from the book