5 gal. tank?

[infernalis]

I use both here without problems and there are pros & cons to each.

If a snake regurgitates it's meal into the substrate, you are more likely to notice it quickly and remove it when it happens behind glass.

In a rack, that regurgitated meal could sit there a while before you notice.

I have witnessed a snake attempt to re-eat a barfed up pinkie all covered in substrate, it was stopped and I threw the pinkie away.

If the snake starts convulsing, what chance of intervention is there if it is hidden away in a rack?

Many of us prefer to see our snakes, glass front vivs are the best way to observe your snakes without handling them.

[RedSidedSPR]

Simple, the snakes internal thermometer is telling it that a certain area/humidity/temp is better at the time. It wasn't him having fun exploring it was his body regulating.

What about at night? He does that stuff all the time shortly after I go to bed.

If it was still while has flighty, and jumpy, I would come to the conclusion you placed the container over his only exit. A lot of times when you do this, the animal goes into a flight response, in an attempt to get out. You've just basically sealed him in his hide, he doesn't want to be stuck there without food/water/etc and will attempt to flee and leave the area. I've noticed this a lot with snakes actually, even using a solid piece of black cloth will a lot of times, trigger the animal to go right through it trying to get out.

Wasn't like that. Not directly in front of his hide, off to the side. I can ASSURE you that was not why he did it. It's a clear plastic container FYI. Also he wasn't to flighty, just didn't like handling.

Snakes are designed for minimal effort, for one, garters are not amazingly strong in terms of comparison to other snakes. Eating, digesting, moving for water, to lay on various parts of the tub or under the substrate are all more than enough to maintain his muscle. Also, I notice around day 4-6 the snakes become more active, because they have finished digesting the last meal, and the next one is imminent.

I've noticed he hangs over his water bowl after 4 or so days but is just as active before that.

Basic understanding of animal psychology alone proves that the snake has no feelings, and has no use for them.

Basic observation shows otherwise. But you wouldn't know.

I can safely say the only animals I really see "anger" in, are primates, I haven't heard or seen it in any ungulates, herps, or carnivores.

I agree. I have no problem with agreeing with you when you're right.

I don't enjoy them moving in the tub, that's why they are in the tub... My girlfriend went and purchased the very expensive showcase cages for her 3 snakes. I can honestly say, 2/3 snakes in the enclosures are 100% boring animals to watch, they do not move, interact, anything, they act like typical healthy snakes, hiding. The last snake was my 7 foot northern pine snake. She was out roaming with some frequency, because of how we fed her, when we switched to feeding jumbo rats every 5-7 days, she became much more complacent and would also just sit in the back of the cage, curled up, not moving. I can assure you I've "tried it" with multiple species, including boas, pythons, garters, corns, bulls, pines, and even a rattlesnake. They all will react in the same basic fashion. The only snake I will give some form of credit to, in terms of "intelligence" based on my personal experiences with the animal- is the king cobra.

Wait... you have a king cobra? Awesome. Anyway, whatever. Garters move around a lot more than what you keep saying. You obviously just bore your snakes to the point where they sleep all day. Maybe it's the lack of light and view. Just blue plastic.

I'd really debate that whole thought. From most of my field observations and captive observations, in both a tub/aquarium setting corns are FAR more active at night, because their most common prey (mice) are also far more active at night.
As for your ipod, I'd be more inclined to say the snake was interested in the fact its electronic. I've seen many many animals either gravitate straight towards or straight away from electromagnetic currents caused by our various gadgets. My snakes will right up to my cellphone to, it's a sense animals pick up on well, that we as humans do not.

garters are without a doubt diurnal, yet my garter comes out and explores at night a lot. And you can be sure he wasnt regulating his body temperature.
As for the iPod, he did the same thing with a freaking easter egg.

[Millinex]

Sorry team, I've been out all day and now working on getting a couple new animals squared away, when I get a spare moment I'll reply to the above posts.

-Mike

[RedSidedSPR]

What are the new animals?

[Millinex]

What are the new animals?

Peach Throat, making the cage for my mangrove (when its not snowing), san diego gopher snake, and working on getting an adult female for my male mangrove. Busy weekend, my mind is in too many places to think straight haha.

[RedSidedSPR]

Sheez...

[d_virginiana]

You said reptile or amphibian, and idk about snakes (it probably wouldn't hurt a snake, but I like to keep them in at least a 10 gallon), but there are definitely some pretty cool frogs out there that are easy to care for and don't need much space. (I've currently got a Pacman frog in a 5 gallon).
Probably other things too, but that's all I've got experience with.

[Sonya610]

Small size is easier to maintain those perfect temps/humidity etc for the individual animal, and easier for us to maintain as well. The snake will not suffer for a smaller cage, if anything, it may feel more secure in the smaller size.

Do define "their comfort of mind" for me? I've never had my snakes tell me what that is, or share with me how they want an enclosure set up. They don't speak english nor write, the only way I can tell if a snake is doing well or not, is if its healthy weight, has some activity, and is able to reproduce. If those are all met, why is my snake so neglected for living in a small bin?

...Again, you're being very anthropomorphic about these animals. They don't "explore the outdoors" because it goes against the natural instinct to survive, and they certainly just don't go around moving around because they just feel like it. Something in the environment, or lack of food, triggers the snake to need to relocate itself. As much as we may wish our snakes had thinking/problem solving skills like us, they simply don't.

I'm not saying I'm wrong or right, again, I have nothing against people who keep their animals in large enclosures, but at the same point they need to realize it's more for them than it is the snake itself. I also feel that the community who keeps snakes in large enclosures is overly harsh of those of us who keep them in smaller cages. We're told our small cages are "cruel and uncaring" when in all reality, my snakes in bins are just as healthy as yours in aquariums, it's a personal preference.

Ummmm...so you admit that keeping reptiles in small cheap containers is EASIER for YOU and then you go on to accuse those that choose larger naturalistic environments as doing "all for themself and not the animal".

Hmmmm...seems like a bit of a contradiction eh? Also "eating, being somewhat active, and reproducing" are not proof of much. Humans can and do survive in small prison cells for decades, an alien could peer down and say "now see, he eats everyday and breeds if given the chance therefore he must be content in that environment".

Fact is in nature Garters are fairly busy little guys, whether for food or heat or whatever. In a captive environment they are still hard wired to want some activity, and their nature does not change simply because they don't need to hunt for food constantly.

Humans have very LITTLE understanding of how most other species interpret their world. To think we understand them and their perception is quite ignorant and arrogant on our part. Keep in mind a few decades ago doctors "knew" that newborn human infants could NOT feel pain, they would perform major surgery on those infants and they were certain the cries and thrashing were involuntary responses that had NOTHING to do with actually suffering because the infants were physically incapable of experiencing real pain.

Twas proven! And we know a heck of a lot more regarding human infants than we do regarding how other species perceive their worlds.

Basic understanding of animal psychology alone proves that the snake has no feelings, and has no use for them.

We have NO real understanding regarding the psychology of most animals! Even the psychology of canines is hotly debated. How can anyone even pretend to understand their psychology when you yourself say they can't tell you what they are thinking?

[infernalis]

my mind is in too many places to think straight haha.

At least we agree on that subject.


I find the activity levels of Garter Snakes amusing to me.

Hiding this behind an opaque wall would defeat the entire purpose of having it. Beauty is to be admired, not hidden.

[guidofatherof5]

They are an active animal.
That's one of the things I love about them.
That and about a thousand other things.