Rack v. Vivarium?

[And_Lyn]

Naturally, we can't know exactly what goes through the mind of the snake, so it's pretty pointless to speculate about which they like more.

stefan, my opinion may be wrong... but ill state mine anyway... captive vs wild is different but this species has evolved to live in a certain habitat correct? close to water etc... obviously they prefer amphibians like tadpoles or frogs, minnows, fish etc... i had a great conversation with wayne today on his success of nonfeeders starting with tadpoles and then working into a normal diet, which was great to hear.

instead of going off topic... my opinion is give them what they have evolved to live in.. for individuals...if you have many, then choose the most cost effective...both are completely understandable... but personally i prefer natural environment... that is until im up in the wayne and guido ranks of 100+ ... until then ill go natural

[Stefan-A]

stefan, my opinion may be wrong... but ill state mine anyway... captive vs wild is different but this species has evolved to live in a certain habitat correct? close to water etc... obviously they prefer amphibians like tadpoles or frogs, minnows, fish etc... i had a great conversation with wayne today on his success of nonfeeders starting with tadpoles and then working into a normal diet, which was great to hear.

instead of going off topic... my opinion is give them what they have evolved to live in.. for individuals...if you have many, then choose the most cost effective...both are completely understandable... but personally i prefer natural environment... that is until im up in the wayne and guido ranks of 100+ ... until then ill go natural

I do agree with you. If you don't mind I'd like to reply with a quote:

I do think that when nothing points to the contrary, mimicing nature is the best solution.

This is where I start rambling:

There are a couple of things that should be taken into account here, too. One is the idea that an organism is capable of identifying a suitable environment based simply on the general characteristics of it, without necessarily knowing whether for example food is abundant there. We know it to be true about humans, people all across the world are predisposed (apparently it's been studied and verified) to like the same types of landscapes, because they suggest that food and fresh water will be abundant there. Whether this theory applies to snakes and if it does, what are the implications and how do they identify a favourable environment, is open to debate. For all we know, our fake-nature-vivs are about as convincing to them as a plastic box in a rack.

The second thing is that organisms work with what they can. Generalists like garter snakes have trouble competing with dedicated fish eaters or mouse catchers, but they've been able to carve out a niche by being flexible and able to switch between several types of prey in radically different environments.That suggests that they would be less specific about their environment. Water is a central thing, sure, but it could also be (not saying it should be) dismissed simply because of the fact that water attracts all types of species.

This is not me defending either racks or vivs, it's just me thinking out loud.

[drache]

never had racks, so I can't speak from experience
but I do feel that more space is better
somebody I'd met thought it crazy that I give my five foot king a 6'x2' enclosure, but he does use that full length sometimes and I wish I could give him more, and he's not even a garter
I always wish I could give them more
and I love seeing them

[infernalis]

Nice Rhea. we just decided to actually build a "corner closet" with a glass front for Limon.

Give him 8 feet tall by 4-5 feet sided to side.

[guidofatherof5]

Just an idea. Couldn't you take a cheap(Salvation Army, thrift store) tall entertainment/audio center and put a hinged screen door on it, for those climbers. It could have a top and bottom door. It could have multiple levels/shelves for plenty of exploring. Maybe laid on its side to give you a couple of long enclosures. It could work.

[MasSalvaje]

This is not me defending either racks or vivs, it's just me thinking out loud.

You know Stefan you make a lot of sense when you think out loud (that is not to say you don't at other times also), very nice insight, thank you.

-Thomas

[MasSalvaje]

never had racks, so I can't speak from experience
but I do feel that more space is better
somebody I'd met thought it crazy that I give my five foot king a 6'x2' enclosure, but he does use that full length sometimes and I wish I could give him more, and he's not even a garter
I always wish I could give them more
and I love seeing them

You are better than I drache! My four other snakes apart from my Gopher and Garters are in racks. In my defense though, I keep them in the larger racks designed for large boids (I only have colubrids). I looked at the 28 and 32qt tubs and decided they were not nearly large enough for my snakes.

-Thomas

[drache]

You are better than I drache!

don't say such a thing - it's a really bad idea
I might start believing it