Quick Question on Live Feeding

[reptile3]

"OMG, it eats CRICKETS??? that is HORRIBLE AND CRUEL!!!" (i always just smile politely at those people and tell them that they are crunchy, they should try one.... and then shake my head later)

i hear that too but with rats! say how can you have a snake that eats rats.
well they have to eat too! worms to snakes,the leo's & beardie.

they do sell crickets to eat... & lolli pops with crickets inside!! YUMMY!!
(never had one) ha ha

[crzy_kevo]

very well put Shannon i personally would have no problem feeding live to my garters as i have put in live frogs with the snakes and watched them hunt (it was rather amazing how fast their reflexes are as they snatched a frog out of the air as it tried to jump away) , however i will be feeding my snakes F/T pinks because i have heard it can be difficult to get a snake back on to f/t when fed live so i would rather just take away the hassle

[infernalis]

Shannon, I know an engineer who helped design the clutch assembly for a machine that drops a very heavy blade assembly down on live cows to quarter them in one swift motion

It's over in a split second.

[aSnakeLovinBabe]

very well put Shannon i personally would have no problem feeding live to my garters as i have put in live frogs with the snakes and watched them hunt (it was rather amazing how fast their reflexes are as they snatched a frog out of the air as it tried to jump away) , however i will be feeding my snakes F/T pinks because i have heard it can be difficult to get a snake back on to f/t when fed live so i would rather just take away the hassle

it's true that some species of snake are prone to becoming addicted to live... not so much garters.... but ball pythons are one of them. Once my balls are consistently eating f/t... they NEVER see another live.. because all it takes is one and the BP may decide it likes those better.

[aSnakeLovinBabe]

Shannon, I know an engineer who helped design the clutch assembly for a machine that drops a very heavy blade assembly down on live cows to quarter them in one swift motion

It's over in a split second.

Unfortunately... that's not all slaughterhouses... just some. Some also use the air gun where a metal rod is fired straight into the animal's braincase... there is no more instantaneous death... but unfortunately... it's not the death many of our food animals meet. Ever seen what turkeys and chickens go through? The birds that are too sick or weak to make it to their destination are simply kicked along and thrown. a machine that dangles them by their feet and slides their heads through a thing that slits their throat one after the other, and then they dangle there until the blood has drained... flapping their wings the entire time. I have seen that one myself... it's a wonder they don't just decapitate... but they don't and It puzzles me to no end.

I also beleive that for kosher meats, for beef to be kosher the throat must be slit and the cow must be concious the entire time, and the blood must me allowed to run out of the animal.

Sadly... to add insult to injury... most of these animals are well aware of what is coming to them as their keepers usually kick them, shock them, beat them or drag them to their slaughter area. In some slaughterhouses... the animals before the one being slaughtered can see the other being killed. The smell of blood, the stench of death, knowing that you are about to be slaughtered and having no control, that must be horrible. Prey items for snakes do not face this type of ordeal.

What I am getting at here (i am not trying to go off topic) is that the methods that are used to control and kill our own food is for the MOST part, extremely cruel compared to when a snake eats a mouse, and I just hate seeing people accuse a person like me of being inhumane for feeding my snake what it eats and then going home and eating a steak, not stopping to think of where it came from or how it died. I am not pointing fingers, I just feel very strongly on this topic and deal with it almost daily. My opinions of live feeding will never change and nor will my opinion that we as human beings are monsters and hippocrites. The majority of the time, I am ashamed to be a member of the same species as so many mindless idiotic sheep roaming our planet!

[Topaz]

I guess it just bothers me when people see that as entertainment. Sure, I think it's educational and great, but I just don't see the whole "natural" argument when a snake is in a glass box, with a UTH, eating a domestic rat/mouse. Not to mention the majority of the people I see/have met that do use live food are incredibly rude to me when I ask about the f/t thing. One person who feed live guinea pigs to their burmese even said once "I use g. pigs because their scream sounds more like a child." Another guy I knew (thankfully, he lives hundreds of miles away now, and his snake was taken from him,) used to get "free to good home" kittens and puppies because he "loved the show."

I agree that the humans are the monsters. But I think if people are to keep snakes, and any animal for that matter, in captivity, then they should be treated as captive animals. But, this is just my opinion...once upon a time I used to believe that snakes and birds were two animals that never should be in captivity...I"m still learning.

And a side note about people with lots of snakes, many of the ones I have talked to actually do euth. the animals before feeding, but don't freeze them. CO2 chambers can be made to euth. a large amount. So not everyone with large amounts of snakes feed live.

[aSnakeLovinBabe]

I guess it just bothers me when people see that as entertainment. Sure, I think it's educational and great, but I just don't see the whole "natural" argument when a snake is in a glass box, with a UTH, eating a domestic rat/mouse. Not to mention the majority of the people I see/have met that do use live food are incredibly rude to me when I ask about the f/t thing. One person who feed live guinea pigs to their burmese even said once "I use g. pigs because their scream sounds more like a child." Another guy I knew (thankfully, he lives hundreds of miles away now, and his snake was taken from him,) used to get "free to good home" kittens and puppies because he "loved the show."

I agree that the humans are the monsters. But I think if people are to keep snakes, and any animal for that matter, in captivity, then they should be treated as captive animals. But, this is just my opinion...once upon a time I used to believe that snakes and birds were two animals that never should be in captivity...I"m still learning.

And a side note about people with lots of snakes, many of the ones I have talked to actually do euth. the animals before feeding, but don't freeze them. CO2 chambers can be made to euth. a large amount. So not everyone with large amounts of snakes feed live.

I did not imply that every one with large collections feeds live, merely that many do and that there's nothing wrong with it, that they are not any less of a person that then one who takes the time to euth them first. Like I said... you can't group the "sick fantasy" people in with the "my snake is hungry" people.

Snakes are captive yes, and are obviously treated as such, seeing as they are not free to roam as they please. But, they are not domestic, hence their special requirements... sure, teh glass box is not natural... BUT...the heat, the substrate, the lighting, the hiding places... we do those things because it replicates what IS natural because that is the only way our reptile will feel completely comfortable...and I don't see why food has to be any different. Your dog is more than happy to curl up on the sofa with you sqeak a rubber toy and eat cooked processed kibble...which is incredibly NOT what a dog is supposed to eat... which they have unfortunately adapted to eating. Your dog does not need you to provide for him a small forest and a den to be happy. He is domesticated and there is different treatment for animals that are domestic, and captive. Captive animals ranging from wild dogs to snakes to insects often have to be convinced to try an already dead animal in the first place. Just because they will adapt to it does not mean it's best for them and their prey. Snakes, for the most part, only accept f/t prey because they have figured out that it's that or nothing. Much like a bearded dragon made to eat pellets would still MUCH rather have real vegetables and fruits. Domestication does nothing but weaken and distort the genetics until you get a totally inferior animal to it's wild counterpart... so why try to do it with reptiles? F/t is only the beginning of alienating snakes from their wild conterparts..... but I suppose I can deal with it. BUT, Let's put it this way.... the day they start trying to commercialize snake food (and its already on the way with disgusting snake sausages), I am OUT!! people try to personify their animals and try to reason that further separation from their instinct is what's best... but is it really... or is that just what's best in OUR interests and need to feel like we are doing some good and right?

Is death by Carbon Dioxide in a dark box REALLY a better, more relaxing, happier death? Who are we to really decide... none of us have ever died to feel it. In both euthanasia AND death by snake.... the victim is still going unconcious and suffocating. Death by snake is quicker than the other, that's for sure. It takes a few minutes for an animal to die from co2... They lay there and gasp and gasp yet there is no relief and they have to miserably sit and wait for it to end... it takes under a minute for an animal to go unconcious and die when being wrapped by a snake thanks to the complete stopping of bloodflow. I would take that death any day.

I hope that made sense to someone else besides me.

[infernalis]

The majority of the time, I am ashamed to be a member of the same species as so many mindless idiotic sheep roaming our planet!

I wholeheartedly agree.

I just am lucky to have critters that like F/T and a good deal with the pet store.

Any time I can trade live for TRIPLE the amount in frozen, That's a bargain.

[crzy_kevo]

one hell of a bargain

[Elliot]

Shannon, I have to say that you make excellent points and do a great job supporting them. I agree with you wholeheartedly.