Rack v. Vivarium?

[gregmonsta]

Only if I really really had to

[crzy_kevo]

quarentine was mentioned

[Snake lover 3-25]

i wouldn't ever use one.....

actually i lied.... if i'm ever around/ am informed before they mow the huge lower field by my house i would....
((last summer i collected all the garters i could from the field to save them from an almost certain death..... the last time they cut it i found about 20 dead garters...... most were large females and some were def. gravid... ))
but they were wild and i was just holding them till the job was done.... that time it would have been helpful... especially because they were very skitish.....

[adamanteus]

I don't use a rack as such, but I do use plastic storage boxes for brumation purposes. Also for holding snakes during routine cleaning. Apart from that I use all custom built vivaria.

[aSnakeLovinBabe]

Warning: this is an incredibly long post. Okay here comes my opinion, but also the experience behind why I formed that opinion. This is a topic on which I have never really sat down to express my full views on, because I knew it would take a lot of time and thought. I like to put time and thought into what I say. I am with everyone else. Vivaria for garters, all the way. I tried keeping my garters in the rack system. That was a horrible, really bad, terrible idea in my opinion and I wish I could apologize to them for making them go through it. I was incredibly dissatisfied with it, and it's my opinion that they were too.

I noticed my garters started to go nuts in the rack system. Like, they were pacing back and forth a lot and never really seemed settled. They were all separate of course, and everyone became a little less willing to eat, and for some reason, much more aggressive! I would open a tub and either the snake SHOOTS out of the tub as fast as it can and makes a break for it, then I would have to play catch the snake.... or I would get ready to feed only to find that the snake is in a state of utter panic or lethargy, depending on the snake, and wants nothing to do with food. I would have to leave the food lay in there and put the tub back and wait before most of them would eat.

I had each 08 baby in one of the smaller tubs, including my blacknecks. I thought that my blacknecks were just naturally shy, antisocial little snakes. They were very hard to get to eat, and when they did eat, they were really picky. They were also extremely flippy. I started to worry that my garters were not getting the quality of life that they deserve. They all seemed relatively "unhappy" and I was unhappy with that. finally, I decided to test my thoughts.

I moved my baby hypermel wandering garters into a 10 gallon tank with belly heat. Over the course of the next two weeks... I noticed a slight improvement in all three's behaviors... they seemed "braver", more willing to eat, and much more settled and relaxed. They would not flip out every time I touched the cage. But I still was not totally happy with the results. Something still did not feel right... so I switched to an overhead heat source, a basking spot with visible light. I have not looked back since. I have proven to myself, time and time again, at my garters seem much more satisfied with a large, roomy enclosure, another garter or two, a basking spot, some plants, and a nice big water bowl for swimming. There is something about the basking light that is really magical. I love turning the lights on in the morning, and then I walk in 10 minutes later, and every garter snake I own is smack on top of the best basking areas and very content. That's not something you see with belly heat... even if you turn it on and off, they won't gravitate to it like they do the light.

I decided to try providing those bulbs that give off zero heat, with belly heat in conjunction. I was not surprised to see that they will still pile up under it even if you place that bulb on the cool side. I would say all of my garters improved by a longshot once I moved back to vivs, but the best improvement are that of my blacknecks and my similis. While my similis is still an evil snake... he actually will take food off my tongs. My blacknecks actually bite at me through the glass when they are hungry, they will now eat ANYTHING, and they will "jump" (you know that little thing they do where they launch themselves off the ground at you) and meet me halfway for their meals.

Do I know for sure that my snakes are more satisfied in vivs than in the rack? Nope. Is it my opinion that they are ten times more satisfied in the vivs with room and climby things and other snakes to twitch at? Absolutely. They are all provided with plenty of choices when it comes to hiding places, I even have closed-top hanging birds nests in a lot of the tanks now (stuff those with moss, they LOVE it!), so they can choose to be alone if they want. The funny thing, is that most of my garters rarely hide now, they spend a lot of time out and about, and when I walk into the room, most snakes hide their heads, but my garters come closer. I feel that if I am going to have an active, athletic species of snake, then I should provide large spaces for them and things to stimulate them and keep them active as they should be. I do not want a bunch of lethargic obese garter snakes sitting in boxes that I can't see into, If I wanted that, I would specialize in ball pythons, and while I have a few of those and they are fun and *easy* to maintain, they get pretty boring at points and are not anywhere near as rewarding. Man, they only poop like once every 2 weeks, how boring!

Does this mean that I'm not going to be able to have as many garters as I could with racks? yes. But, if I am going to devote so much of myself, my time, my energy, my obsession, and my passion to these snakes, why hide them from myself? They are not the pokemon cards that i had when I was 12 to collect and stuff in a binder, they are living and breathing and what's the point of having an active species of snake if I'm not interested in viewing them or providing the space they enjoy? All types of snakes have their perks, and garters are one of those snakes that may be high maintenace, but the interaction and observation that I get out of it makes the time, money, energy and space I devote to them well worth it. In fact, there is not a brighter moment in my day than when I open up the side door on my home-built hex cage and the three residents come sliding over and willingly will crawl right out onto my arm, curiously flicking tongues. I can do that every day, 10 times a day, and even if they are stuffed full, they still come over to check me out. I keep meaning to film it because even my own mom thinks its cute. I see my ball pythons about once every 5 days, and that is right before feeding time when they start to become anxious. Then they go and hide, and they are quite content hiding their lives away in dark places. But... garters are not! So my opinion will stand that the rack system downright sucks for keeping garter (and water) snakes. There is no circumstance in which i would change my mind and put them back in it, unless I was brumating them in it.

I wonder if anybody actually made it this far!!!

[adamanteus]

I agree...... that is an incredibly long post!
I also agree totally with the content.

[gregmonsta]

Great post shannon ... ... you might want a nightcam for the BPs ... a friend of mine would always catch his out when he went for a midnight snack ... he'd get to his living room, flip the light on and his 'boring' snake would be climbing about apparently on a mission .... I think all snakes need and deserve space ... yes you might give a large python a room and it may not seem to move >>> but does that mean we should keep it in a snake + water bowl sized plastic tray? ... I say nay ... in fact in my opinion it's just as bad as battery farming in context.

[Snake lover 3-25]

that won't even fit on my screen!!! i have to scroll down!!! wow!!!!!

[Snake lover 3-25]

GREAT POST!!!!!!!

[aSnakeLovinBabe]

Great post shannon ... ... you might want a nightcam for the BPs ... a friend of mine would always catch his out when he went for a midnight snack ... he'd get to his living room, flip the light on and his 'boring' snake would be climbing about apparently on a mission .... I think all snakes need and deserve space ... yes you might give a large python a room and it may not seem to move >>> but does that mean we should keep it in a snake + water bowl sized plastic tray? ... I say nay ... in fact in my opinion it's just as bad as battery farming in context.

well actually, I should have mentioned in my earlier post that i want to sell that rack system and replace it with a viv stack. i just thought I had already said enough

I don't really like the rack, except its convenient for rearing babies and isolating individuals.