WC vs CB

[d_virginiana]

My oldest snake was almost certainly WC (er... well, very close to it anyway). His mother was WC, and when the person realized she was gravid they gave her to the local pet store where she had her babies a few days later. Even very old, he is quite healthy. However, I'd be surprised if any of his siblings lived longer than a few months due to people not knowing how to care for them. My WC reptiles definitely seem to be hardier than my CB reptiles.

It depends on where you're at in the US as to what native species are legal to keep. Each state has its own set of laws. For example, a snake that lives in both NC and GA could be legal to own in NC but not GA.

[ConcinusMan]

Each state has its own set of laws.

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Individual counties or cities too, sometimes. For example, there are a few counties in CA that do not allow collecting/keeping native garters at all, even with the fishing license (required by the state to legally collect unprotected garter species)

[MCwyo]

Stephan, I respectfully disagree with your statement that WC will be mistreated because it's a "cheap pet". I do not think price has anything do do with neglect. People will pay $1500 for a chiwiniepoodoodle (whatever) designer breed dog, then dump it in a shelter once they get tired of it. People will spend hundreds of dollars on an exotic reptile and a complete set up, and then their "pet" will slowly starve to death because they only remember to feed it once a month. When it eventually dies, they will shrug and say "Oh well, it was just a lizard, I can replace it." At any rate, a typical garter only runs $10-$20, and compared to other reptiles their set up is pretty low-cost and low-maintenance. It's a cheap pet weather you buy it or catch it. It's all down to the owners belief/attitude about pet care.

I think the main con for WC would be parasites, as well as the issue of weather or not the snake can adjust to captivity. Obviously there is also a large difference between catching and keeping a few individuals who adjust well to captivity, as opposed to going out and collecting every specimen you can possibly find.

I have never purchased a truly captive bred reptile, so I cannot comment other than I would think quality would depend on the breeder. From a reputable breeder, you should be getting a healthy, disease & parasite free snake, and you should be able to find out the lineage and genetic information. From a poor quality pet store or a poor quality breeder, you may get a malnourished or sickly snake, parasites, or poor genetic quality.

For me personally, when it comes to my states native species of snakes, I would prefer to go out into the field and harvest them. There are actually three species of snake that I would like to collect from the wild, aside from garters- smooth green snake, black hills red-bellied snake, and the yellow bellied racer. I have captured several racers, but released them because they did not adjust. The other two species I have never seen and I think will be a challenge to find. In WY, no permit is required for collection, keeping, selling, buying, or trading native snake species, with the exception of the pale milk snake, the rubber boa, and the midget faded rattlesnake.

I have caught wild reptiles, amphibians, insects, invertebrates ect my entire life. As a child I would catch (and 99.9% of the time release) hermit crabs, jelly fish, garters, anoles, skinks, turtles, gekos, taratulas, horned lizzards, crawdads, bullfrogs, leopard frogs, tree frogs, wood frogs, salamanders, toads and even (unknowingly at the time) a gila monster. I think that the experience of having close encounters with these creatures has given me a deeper apriciation for the need for habitat conservation as well as a deeper apriciation and love for wildlife of all shapes and sizes. I share my love and enthusiasm for wildlife every year at a local elementary school, by doing a Wildlife Exploration presentation. This year my WC vagrans will be joining the presentation and I will be doing a little highlight on reptiles & anphibians.

[d_virginiana]

I think when Stefan was talking about cheap WC animals, he was referring to people who either raid nests or capture gravid females and keep all the babies, then sell them for next to nothing; like $2 for five baby snakes. Many of these get used as feeders, or go to people who truly don't care.

I agree that there is the possibility of neglect at any price level, but it is much more likely that a one dollar snake will be mistreated than a $3,000 python.

[ConcinusMan]

I'm pretty sure Stefan is talking about people that don't give a damn about the snakes and just round them up for money. They don't take proper care of them. And many people who don't have the animals interests in mind, are trolling for cheap animals.

[@ndy]

I'm pretty sure Stefan is talking about people that don't give a damn about the snakes and just round them up for money. They don't take proper care of them. And many people who don't have the animals interests in mind, are trolling for cheap animals.

I agree, thats the reason all our native species are protected and you face heavy fines or jail time if caught collecting / Selling / keeping without the correct permits, in some provinces here you even need a transport permit for your reptile. If people are allowed to collect freely it decimates the local population into extinction. Look at the Dwarf Bitis species for instance

[Stefan-A]

Stephan, I respectfully disagree with your statement that WC will be mistreated because it's a "cheap pet". I do not think price has anything do do with neglect. People will pay $1500 for a chiwiniepoodoodle (whatever) designer breed dog, then dump it in a shelter once they get tired of it. People will spend hundreds of dollars on an exotic reptile and a complete set up, and then their "pet" will slowly starve to death because they only remember to feed it once a month. When it eventually dies, they will shrug and say "Oh well, it was just a lizard, I can replace it." At any rate, a typical garter only runs $10-$20, and compared to other reptiles their set up is pretty low-cost and low-maintenance. It's a cheap pet weather you buy it or catch it. It's all down to the owners belief/attitude about pet care.

Hate to disappoint those who speculated that I meant the collectors. Those were covered by the first two points, but not the third. I do mean the people who end up keeping them as pets.

Yes, people who invest large amounts of money in an animal may well neglect or dump it. They're not the rule, though. Yes, people who catch wild snakes may take outstanding care of them, we have people here on the forum who do exactly that. They are not the average owner of a WC animal, they're the absolute cream of the crop. The average owner is the kind who found an animal crawling across the driveway and decided to toss it in a bucket with some grass and twigs and keep it until it's dead he's bored. If it's lucky, someone will toss in something completely inappropriate "to eat". The average owner of a WC is the kind of guy who picks up a "northern garter" from a tub of 10 (out of 100 originally caught) at the local pet store, brings it home and tosses it into an aquarium with some sand in it and some crickets to eat, from which it either escapes on day 1 and dies, or it just dies. Sometimes, the parents just let it go when the kid gets bored with it. Did I mention that the typical owner of a WC animal is just a kid? It does not occur to most people to find out how to properly care for an animal before buying it, or to question what pet stores tell them about the animals that are sold, or to look up more detailed information about their care online. Yes, these are things that may happen with CBB animals as well, but when you have nothing invested in something that can be easily replaced at virtually no cost, people don't bother taking care of it. It doesn't matter if it's an animal or something else; cheap stuff is treated as if it's disposable.

[infernalis]

It does not occur to most people to find out how to properly care for an animal before buying it, or to question what pet stores tell them about the animals that are sold, or to look up more detailed information about their care online. Yes, these are things that may happen with CBB animals as well, but when you have nothing invested in something that can be easily replaced at virtually no cost, people don't bother taking care of it. It doesn't matter if it's an animal or something else; cheap stuff is treated as if it's disposable.

this statement right here, so true it hurts, and with many different species of animals.

Not so long ago, Iguanas were given away as prizes at carnivals, Free lizards that NEED highly specialized care.

Savannah & Nile Monitors are sold for as little as $10 up front, yet they require very large, expensive caging that they never get.

Smooth Green and Rough green snakes commonly sold for $10 or less never last very long at all once sold.

To me, it's ALL legalized poaching and nothing more.