Guess who was smart, yert fealt stupid in the first wildlife management lab?

[MasSalvaje]

Yes, apparently at least on amphibians, it has a calming sedative effect. Naturally, it's struggling amphibians that are going to get a good dose as the snake "chews" and the amphibian struggles. After a brief struggle, they just seem to give up and calm down as they're being swallowed alive. Partially due to the garter "venom".

You guys need to read this: http://vipersgarden.at/PDF_files/PDF-2306.pdf
The venom of garters is much more complex than you all are giving it credit for as a mild "calming sedative."

-Thomas

[ConcinusMan]

Well, the study was done on vagrans and they are known to feed heavily on rodents. In fact, in all my years of herping and seeing snakes vomit prey items, a wild vagrans last summer was the only time I've ever seen a garter vomit up a rodent. They're also (wild vagrans from that area) the only garters I've ever fed in captivity that I've observed to actually coil around or pin their food down. It would make sense that not all garters would necessarily be that toxic especially if their target prey is something that is much easier to subdue, such as a small frog or salamander/newt and that level of toxicity is surely not necessary for something like a northwestern that feeds heavily on worms and slugs.

[MasSalvaje]

Well, the study was done on vagrans and they are known to feed heavily on rodents. In fact, in all my years of herping and seeing snakes vomit prey items, a wild vagrans last summer was the only time I've ever seen a garter vomit up a rodent. They're also (wild vagrans from that area) the only garters I've ever fed in captivity that I've observed to actually coil around or pin their food down. It would make sense that not all garters would necessarily be that toxic especially if their target prey is something that is much easier to subdue, such as a small frog or salamander/newt and that level of toxicity is surely not necessary for something like a northwestern that feeds heavily on worms and slugs.

As I said, garter venom is much more complex than to justify the use of over arching statements that attempt to sum it all up in a single sentence or phrase, or even in a single study.

-Thomas

[KephrenJorgensen]

I cant seem to find the file anymore, but I was researching the Duvernoy's gland for a school project, and found some other possible uses for it. In species like ordinoides that feed primarily on invbertebrates, the secretions contain traces phospholipase A, and it is thought to be used to increase the surface area of prey for digestion immediately following contact, among its other effects. It was described as a similarity to the way a human's saliva immediately beings to break down starch.

[KephrenJorgensen]

begins *

[guidofatherof5]

I cant seem to find the file anymore, but I was researching the Duvernoy's gland for a school project, and found some other possible uses for it. In species like ordinoides that feed primarily on invbertebrates, the secretions contain traces phospholipase A, and it is thought to be used to increase the surface area of prey for digestion immediately following contact, among its other effects. It was described as a similarity to the way a human's saliva immediately beings to break down starch.

ScienceDirect.com - Toxicon - The toxic Duvernoy's secretion of the wandering garter snake, Thamnophis elegans vagrans

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Lethal factors and enzymes in the secretion from Duvernoy's gland of three colubrid snakes - Rosenberg - 2005 - Journal of Experimental Zoology - Wiley Online Library

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