Ribbons & garters breeding??

[wolfess]

Wayne, how many known cases are there, of species within the same genus being unable to produce hybrids? Humans and chimps are a poor example, since Homo and Pan aren't as closely related as T. radix and T. proximus, for example.

What abt those lion and tiger crosses? If those 2 can cross-pollinate why couldn't 2 snakes?

[infernalis]

Notice that I did point out it was an assumption, uneducated or otherwise.

I know however that Scott Felzer has attempted to breed Garter snakes that were far closer together on the family tree with no results.

Yes Scientists have successfully hybridized many things.

If one person anywhere can post picture proof that a ribbon has successfully hybridized with another order of Thamnophis naturally by simply copulating, please present it.

Somehow I still struggle to find it likely to occur. Yet that is just my wave of thought

[Stefan-A]

Yes Scientists have successfully hybridized many things.

None of the (successful) examples used so far are examples of hybridization assisted by scientists.

If one person anywhere can post picture proof that a ribbon has successfully hybridized with another order of Thamnophis naturally by simply copulating, please present it.

I'm not sure what you mean by the word "order", since the scientific term "order" doesn't fit the context, but I think it's important to acknowledge that the division of Thamnophis into garters and ribbons is completely arbitrary and has no real scientific merits. They all belong to the same genus and are closely related. The ribbon snakes are as much part of Thamnophis, as sirtalis or radix. With that in mind, there's really no reason to assume that it would be safe to keep them together.

Two other things should be pointed out as well. Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence and to conclusively prove a hybrid, you need more than just a picture.

[infernalis]

Well stated and thought out as always

I respectfully back down, It would never happen here, since I think a ribbon would probably harass the poor garter snake anyways.

[aSnakeLovinBabe]

based on what i've seen hybrid wise, (I have seen some pretty distant snakes hybridized) I would say that it is most likely very possible for members of the thamnophis genus to produce viable offfspring... whether they be a garter cross, ribbon cross, or a garter x ribbon cross. I'm not going to say that the fertility rate would be high or that fertilization would even happen every time... but I think if the conditions and the right two snakes were combined... it can happen.

just my humble opinion.

[Zephyr]

I would say that they indeed can.
Speaking from experience with T. s. sirtalis and T. m. marcianus...
And also think that they can reproduce with lined snakes, but the young would probably be infertile.

[Loren]

I agree with Shannon's line of thought. If you look at many of the other hybrids out there in general, I find it believable that they could breed. Now, are they at all likely to without special coaxing? Thats a different question. And I dont know

[Loren]

Interesting side note: apparently, the Soviets tried creating human/chimp hybrids.

How did they go about hiring people for that job ?

Classifieds?

Wanted; people who really like chimps.

[infernalis]

PITA members were standing in line

[Stefan-A]

How did they go about hiring people for that job ?

Classifieds?

Wanted; people who really like chimps.

With a propaganda machine like theirs, finding volunteers probably wasn't a problem.