Another mystery garter

[adamanteus]

I disagree with the build being different and the head thing doesn't really work either. Even my vagrans have different head shapes and neither of my sirtalis were similar.

It works for me. I can only think when you've seen and kept so many, you pick up on the more subtle differences and similarities between species. To me, that just isn't a radix head.

[Stefan-A]

There's a lot of variation even within the different species, I don't think analyzing head shapes is reliable enough to be used with species like sirtalis and radix.

But I agree, it's guesswork at best.

[GarterGuy]

I agree with Stephan, I'm thinking strait T.radix. I know I've seen pics before of darker individuals that lacked the tell tale spotting that we're used to seeing on radix. As variable as many of the other garter species can be (did someone say sirtalis), I wouldn't think it'd be that much of a a stretch to see a radix dark like this. They do range over a really large area, so some variation is to be expected. Can't really do a scale count from the pics though, so not sure if it's 19 or 21? Still just think it's a dark radix.

[ssssnakeluvr]

interesting ideas...I am leaning towards radix myself.

[zooplan]

With the snake in our hands, there might be a way of scale counting to identify the specie, but with one photo we can only go on guessing.

[reptileparadise]

A scale count would make a big difference...It looks like a radix to me, but I think I also see a hint of red in the snake (near the middle of his / her body) It could be me, or the monitor...Doesn't really matter either...Radix are also known to have red...

[Stefan-A]

Well, you can count the supralabials and the infralabials, and you can identify the scale rows the lateral stripe is in. You can even tell that the dorsal stripe has a very different colour than the lateral stripes. I did a bit of editing on my computer changing the contrast settings and even some black markings below the lateral stripe became visible. I don't see any red on it, though. It's a poor quality picture, apparently taken with a phone and not a camera.

What you can't count are teeth, total number of scale rows and subcaudal scales.

None of these eliminate the possibility that it's a hybrid, of course.