Making a west coast trip.

[SheffieldReptiles]

Anyone in Washington state who attempts to sell you T. Elegans, T. Ordinoides, T. s. fitchi, or T. s. pickeringii is doing so illegally. Even if we are legally possessing them (real gray area on legal ownership) we can't sell them or their offspring.

Hunter

[Albert Clark]

Wait a minute, first you outlined that there was no way to obtain specimens from the state of Washington of T.s.pickeringi. Steve researched the laws and found that there is certain legal criteria to obtain w/c or collected individuals. No one is trying to do anything illegal or has done anything illegal in my neck of the woods. Op asked for specific locations to collect T.s infernalis as well as T.s pickeringii and I gave the information as I thought was appropriate. Actually Steve contacted the the appropriate agency and got the exact requirements for the op. The law does have specific criteria in Washington state for such so I am not sure about any "gray area".

[SheffieldReptiles]

Al,
I was saying you can't keep wild garters from Washington for the average garter keeper. Scientific collection which Steve is 100% correct about, doesn't apply to most of us. But the legality of anyone in Washington trying to sell you the previously listed garters still is illegal. The gray area I was talking about is due to the fact that in the laws there is written some ways you can be able to possess them, but you have to have a large amount of documentation. And you still can't sell them or their babies even though you legally brought them into the state.

[Albert Clark]

Well, now the op is well informed and well armed with the information posted and researched. We all have some new information on the Washington state Puget sound garter snake as it relates to current legislation put forth by the Fish and wildlife department.

[joeysgreen]

If you're just looking to field herp and not collect, my advice is to spend your mornings (most of the year by 10am it's too hot and the garters are hidden away) at any wetland that has paths or short vegetation nearby. Rock piles near these waterways are also a blessing. The short vegetation isn't a necessity for garters, but more so you have a chance at seeing them.

[Albert Clark]

Anyone in Washington state who attempts to sell you T. Elegans, T. Ordinoides, T. s. fitchi, or T. s. pickeringii is doing so illegally. Even if we are legally possessing them (real gray area on legal ownership) we can't sell them or their offspring.

Hunter

As a matter of fact, no one was ever talking about selling anything so... Op was asking about collecting while herping. He never said he was going there to sell anything so I think this statement wasn't really warranted and borders on being flawed as it relates to the op and his request for location information.

[SheffieldReptiles]

Al,
I was just throwing that information out so all would be informed. Cause it seemed as if you were receiving wrong information about garter laws in the state of Washington. If you would like to continue this conversation, please pm and we can discuss further if need be.

[Albert Clark]

Op was actually asking for locations to SEE t.s infernalis in Calif. and also to SEE t.s. Pickeringii. He never said he was looking to "collect" either sub species. That was my interpretation that he was looking to "collect" either animal. Op never qualified that collecting or bagging wild caughts was his intention. Misinterpretation on my part. Guess I read into it.

[Hybrid]

Just arrived in Kent WA. It's a cloudy overcast day. Gonna see if I can't spot something today and find a few areas to look over the next couple days. Here's hoping the area is kind to me for driving 21 hours instead of 16 to Cali.

[Albert Clark]

Just arrived in Kent WA. It's a cloudy overcast day. Gonna see if I can't spot something today and find a few areas to look over the next couple days. Here's hoping the area is kind to me for driving 21 hours instead of 16 to Cali.

Wow! I sure wish I was there. I'll be relocating to NoCal in 2017 so it won't be long. But enjoy Washington and take some nice pictures to share. Happy trails and keep us posted.