Post pics of your anery red sideds?

[BUSHSNAKE]

You can take a natural color varient(like a miami corn)and use it to create new looks...but its not genetic mutation so that comes into play as well

[BUSHSNAKE]

one more thing...there is an anery and an axanthic plains right? one takes away red one takes away yellow...why cant you produce a morph when you breed em together?

[Scott F]

Joe said "Shannon didnt say it was an anery only thats how one would look BY DEFFINITION, its hard to compare redsides, plains, and easterns because in their natural form they dont look the same so why should the morphs look the same "

Here are some pics of anery garters (Plains, West Va and south Carolina Easterns, and red sideds).

Scott

[aSnakeLovinBabe]

Hey Shannon,

The goldens's trait has not been replicated in several breedings (breeding F1's to F1's and the golden male to F1 female offspring). This doesn't disprove that it is not some form of anerythristic, but makes the chances it is remote at best. This snake is for sale now but if he doesn't sell, I will breed him to the albino next year to prove (or disprove) this theory. It could actually make for an interesting project, sometimes breeding one morph to a different one(s) can produce different results too. I will breed him too this Iowa albino red sided if this albino's het male is not breeder size by next Spring.

Scott

Aww well that stinks! I thought it said there were gold babies born but i am guessing they colored up? And Wow! Is that a t positive red sided????? Omg. I neeeeeeed one of those.

[Scott F]

Hey Shannon,

I'll need your address to ship it to you

Scott

[aSnakeLovinBabe]

Hey Shannon,

I'll need your address to ship it to you

Scott

hehe, I WISH!!!

[RedSidedSPR]

Do it. That way I can buy the babies!

[ConcinusMan]

i still say those things are "melanistic" not anery!

Me too, but what do I know, I'm just a latecomer layman here on the genetics/pigments subject.

and not all melanistics have to look the same

And they don't. I don't know how many times I've seen melanistic ordinoides for sale or pictured and people call them "axanthic" or "anery" just because they look similar to anery this or axanthic that. They are nieither. They are melanistic and melanistic doesn't look the same on one species as it does another. It doesn't even have to be black necessarily.

Hey Joey, do we need to go over the genetics again on anery vs mel ??

Give it a shot. This should be entertaining. Actually I've heard it before. I'm not at all convinced by the arguments but I'm willing to hear it again.

Melanistics...jet black usually w/ a patch of white on their chin..anery's have a pattern...
Scott

Anery ordinoides often have a pattern although faint. Also not necessarily jet black. Can be charcoal gray. The melanistic you described is only one phenotype for one species. The only melanistic phenotype for eastern garters.

One must be willing to loosen their conception of what is anery, what is axanthic, and what is melanistic in order to come closer to the truth. This narrow definition of what is what, is at the heart of the issue. What is closer to the truth is that you cannot place everything in neat little well-defined packages. Biology, and life in general, isn't contained in this manner and neither should our conceptions about it be. In short, it's not all "black and white"

With all that said, I do believe that anery red-sides are the purest example and defintion of "anerythristic". all areas that should be red are pigment less. There is no more, or no less of any other pigments. There is no obvious apparent Epistasis - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia going on like there likely is going on with these questionable "anery" and axanthic snakes.

This is simply not the case with my anery T.s. concinnus'. They have pigment in every place on their body. It's just not the "right" color in certain areas. In that case, I fully admit that "anery" is purely a descriptive term for lack of a better one.

There could be much more going on than simple anerythrism or axanthism (I don't even know if that's the correct terms but hell). There are probably also genes affected which are hypostatic. "Side effects" if you will, that alter the function of other genes involving pigment distribution or color. Life isn't so simple that either of us could possibly be 100% right or wrong.

I'm liking where the conversation/debate is going. It would be a shame if people dropped out over emotions and egos. Please continue!

[MasSalvaje]

Give it up Richard; everyone knows the arguments for this and that. Nothing anyone can say will definitively prove one side or the other of this moot argument.

What is closer to the truth is that you cannot place everything in neat little well-defined packages.

I do believe you can, haven't you been down the cereal isle of any grocery store? I believe they do it all the time and quite effectively if you ask me.

You forget that the entire purpose of science is to attempt to put the unexplainable into a nice little jar of formaldehyde for all to see and understand. Sometimes it works and sometimes we fall short so we stick it in another jar or box for awhile until somebody else comes along and puts it in a new jar of their own. It is a never ending process that will go on as long as our egocentric species exists. No need to hash it out every time the subject comes up.

Some call it melinistic, some call it anery, I choose to call it Black Bean Phantom Gas. Point is they are just names so call it what you may and let me and everyone else do the same without hashing it all out.

So I am not completely off topic, Please keep posting pics of these guys! They have been at the top of my "to get" list for quite some time.

-Thomas

[ssssnakeluvr]

here's my ordinoides.... unfortunately he passed away last winter during brumation