little movie stars - 2 garters fishing.

[guidofatherof5]

Thiaminase is thiaminase. When the B1 deficiency hits it's normally a death sentence for the snake. I love to watch my snakes fishing and I know they love to eat fish but the joy I get doesn't cancel out the danger to them. With guppies available in most areas, they still get to fish. Before I knew about thiaminase I would feed minnows once a month. Then I learned about the other minnow problem, parasites! I diced up a minnow for a group of babies and found a worm inside.
Thiaminase + parasites= NO MINNOWS

[Stefan-A]

Then I learned about the other minnow problem, parasites!

A very good reason to switch to f/t.

[ConcinusMan]

goldfish!!!

those are a big no-no! they are thiaminase laden and a junk feeder. Avoid using these at all costs.

But I must say I do love it when a snake catches a fish and runs across the tank with it!

GASP! oh no! not the same fish my concinnus ate for 20 years! oh no!

[guidofatherof5]

GASP! oh no! not the same fish my concinnus ate for 20 years! oh no!

Yes, and some(very few) people smoke their entire lives and live to be old.
Still, I don't think I'm going to risk smoking. The odds are not in my favor.
The odds are not in the snakes favor when it comes to goldfish/minnows or other fish containing thiaminase and once it has done it's damage there is not much that can be done to save the snake.
I know you were not implying that goldfish were OK to feed. I'm glad your snakes lived that long and you got to enjoy them.

I'm only reacting to what might be misconstrued by your statement. Many people come to this sight as visitors and may only read a small amount of info. contained here. Thiaminase is a real problem out there since pet shops repeatedly sell goldfish/rosy reds to people to feed their garters.
I was one of those people who bought them and can thank the members of this forum for enlightening me.

I, by no means meant to get on a bandwagon but I have witnessed snakes die from thiaminase. I don't think any snake owner should have to see what it does.

[aSnakeLovinBabe]

Yes, and some(very few) people smoke their entire lives and live to be old.
Still, I don't think I'm going to risk smoking. The odds are not in my favor.
The odds are not in the snakes favor when it comes to goldfish/minnows or other fish containing thiaminase and once it has done it's damage there is not much that can be done to save the snake.
I know you were not implying that goldfish were OK to feed. I'm glad your snakes lived that long and you got to enjoy them.

I'm only reacting to what might be misconstrued by your statement. Many people come to this sight as visitors and may only read a small amount of info. contained here. Thiaminase is a real problem out there since pet shops repeatedly sell goldfish/rosy reds to people to feed their garters.
I was one of those people who bought them and can thank the members of this forum for enlightening me.

I, by no means meant to get on a bandwagon but I have witnessed snakes die from thiaminase. I don't think any snake owner should have to see what it does.

Me either, I agree wholeheartedly. Considering the garters of my teenage years all died a seemingly horrible death consisting of loss of balance and convulsions... I fed them goldfish! It's just odd to me that different snakes I had at different times in my life before I knew better were all fed the same food item and all died of the same symptoms within a year or two of being captive. And we are talking snakes that never contacted one another! It's one of the reasons i decided to start connecting with other garter keepers online... I knew something was not right!
Simply because a snake lived on it without ill effects doesn't mean it should be flaunted as if a reason to justify using a KNOWN source of thiaminase. How long an animal lived, and such a small sample of specimens is not viable as to determining if those snakes actually, internally, thrived. Possibly the effects were greatly lessened, to a non-lethal, non-visual extent, due to the fish being rotated into the diet and not used as a dietary staple?

It will greatly confuse newcomers on this site and make them think twice about switching to healthier and KNOWN to be safe food items, such as f/t, thiaminase free fish. As Thomas (MasSalvaje) pointed out in another thread, bad husbandry techniques should not be treated as trivial and shrugged off as long as the animal seemingly does well. I've met quite a few people who've had bearded dragons and red eared sliders "for years" without any UV. I've met many people who kept iguanas in small, humidity-free wire cages for their entire life. They live, sometimes, but more often than not, they don't. Doesn't make it any less of a bad choice at all even if the animal SEEMS fine. It's pure negligence.

Once I learned that I had been basically feeding my snakes poison I did not blow it off I've owned up to I DID NOT DO MY HOMEWORK before I started keeping garters as a teen and I had terrible, horrible husbandry techniques, from feeder goldfish, to sand as substrate, to no quarantine periods. "they seem to have done/be doing just fine" is not an acceptable standard as far as I and many other serious hobbyists are concerned! So please, I am asking you nicely here, to not trivialize the thiaminase issue as it will only hurt our goals (it can't help in ANY possible way) of pushing people to practice better husbandry techniques regardless of whether they actually see results or not!

I want to point out that my only real issue with all of this is what may be misconstrued from your statements which I believe you deem to be harmless. I don't hate you and I'm not attacking you or anything.

[TheBeansprout]

It will greatly confuse newcomers on this site and make them think twice about switching to healthier and KNOWN to be safe food items, such as f/t, thiaminase free fish.[/I]

Hi, excuse my ignorance, but what are f/t? Also, are there any thiaminase-free fish that are alive and that can be fed to my girls and boys?

Also, I just want to make this perfectly clear (channel Richard Nixon, hahaha), the main meals for all of my snakes are pinkies and fuzzies. I knew that the feeder fish should never be a staple. So for my beloved pets, they were just a treat so they could go fishing and for me because I love to watch them. For the 5+ years I have had these girls and boys, I would get a couple dozen feeder fish 2 or 3 times a year; and I have 15 garters.

I don't know why I'm feeling obligated to explain myself, but there it is.

TheBeansprout

[guidofatherof5]

Hi, excuse my ignorance, but what are f/t? Also, are there any thiaminase-free fish that are alive and that can be fed to my girls and boys?
Also, I just want to make this perfectly clear (channel Richard Nixon, hahaha), the main meals for all of my snakes are pinkies and fuzzies. I knew that the feeder fish should never be a staple. So for my beloved pets, they were just a treat so they could go fishing and for me because I love to watch them. For the 5+ years I have had these girls and boys, I would get a couple dozen feeder fish 2 or 3 times a year; and I have 15 garters.
I don't know why I'm feeling obligated to explain myself, but there it is.
TheBeansprout

f/t=frozen/thawed

Guppies are a great live feeder fish and widely available in many locations.

Check out this link for more info. Towards the bottom of it is a list of safe fish. Thiaminase

[ConcinusMan]

Whoah, what did I start. Holey moley. I know, I know, I've heard it all and I won't be using goldfish anymore. There's plenty of small trout in our local streams for me to catch so I think I'll be using that route. And I have seen the disease. It's quite disturbing.