Thamnophis in Europe?

[Stefan-A]

Not meaning to hijack the thread but how and when did Thamnophis get across to Europe? Can they still be exported to Eurpoe with special permits or are you all working from groups that where established there before. Did it spring out of international zoo cooperation, smuggling or what. I'm just curious as to how it happened and do you have access to a fresh gene pool. Other than Thamnophis sirtalis tetrataenia how do you replace what you have and still introduce different genes to the mix.

Linnaeus described some garter species and subspecies in the 1700's, although I don't know if he worked with live specimens or just dead ones. Some may come from zoos and universites, but my guess is that most were brought over from the 1950s onwards.

Importing them shouldn't be much of a problem these days, I'm pretty sure the worst part is getting them out of the Americas. Some species are CITES listed and are more difficult than others. I think one of the parents of my vagrans females, was actually one of Felzer's snakes, but I could be wrong. So there is a certain flow of genes from North America to Europe. edit: "The mother is a wildcaught snake and the father is a baby from Scott Felzer stock." (So spake the breeder I bought them from)

[gregmonsta]

Currently there are still semi-regular imports (Panama is an excellent example ) of WC Thamnophis. I think there are a few breeders too that still get access to fresh bloodlines from America too (be it private import or at reptile shows).
I think originally garters came here to be studied - then Zoos - then private collections. Not sure on the date tho lol I'm sure it dates back to somewhere in between 1800-1900s ... but don't quote me on that ... I can barely visualise reading something to that extent.

[zooplan]

Some species are CITES listed and are more difficult than others.

Sorry, but I don´t know any Thamnohpis that is CITES listed, and you don´t need any papers at all for keeping and breeding any Garter Snake in most European states.
Professional importers still get them in big numbers and sell them to lokal pet shops. Private breeders ( mainly members of the EGSA) can buy them from SF or other breeders too.
We have a lot of species and morphs here.
You may have a look at the stock list of Informationsseiten der Reptilien-Züchtergemeinschaft-Norddeutschland! for example.

[Stefan-A]

Sorry, but I don´t know any Thamnohpis that is CITES listed,

You're right. CITES.org has T. hammondii in their database, but there are no Thamnophis species in the appendices. I was under the impression that T. gigas and T. hammondii were CITES species, but obviously I was wrong.

[aSnakeLovinBabe]

And Central America.

okay, you got me