Indonesian Garters and Petco

[MasSalvaje]

the venom itself is mild to negligible in both, 99% of people will have no reaction but I was referring to the one person who has a serious, allergic reaction to it and dies. Lyre snakes have a "harmless" venom just like thamnophis and xenochrophis, but a small boy was keeping one as a pet in cali, and it bit him and he ended up going into shock and dying. Simlilar things have happened with members of Rhabdophis. Rhabdophis were once all considered "no more dangerous" than garters". Things happen, and sadly usually they are the only way we can REALLY learn about these creatures. It can, and does happen, and if it happens with one of these snakes, and they are misrepresented on top of it, that can mean BIG problems. Prevention, education, and respect for the species is key. Little detail is known about xenochrophis...That is the aspect that really concerns me, and there's no arguing that it's not something to really consider.

You are very correct! But shouldn't we then put the same detail in getting people educated about Thamnophis? Maybe I am just paranoid but if we bring attention to a snake that causes it to be banned, like Xenocrophis, because of its mild venom are we not just opening the door for a ban on Thamnophis in general when they find out they have a very similar venom?

Just a thought, I could be way off.

-Thomas

[infernalis]

Thomas, I think you misunderstand.

No one wants them banned. Just labeled and sold correctly, labeled responsibly.

They are confusing the general public in many ways. That's all.

[Stefan-A]

that's about 97.83 percent of the population of planet earth.

About.

However I consider being called a geek or nerd a compliment

I would, too, if it didn't make it painfully obvious that the other person isn't one.

[Stefan-A]

Merged the Petco threads.

[MasSalvaje]

Thomas, I think you misunderstand.

No one wants them banned. Just labeled and sold correctly, labeled responsibly.

They are confusing the general public in many ways. That's all.

I understand that no one here wants them banned, but if we start bringing up terms like mildly venomous, that is just adding fuel to an all ready growing fire in some cases. Someone may see that as a reason to ban them. Lyre snakes and true Keelbacks are already banned in my state, for simply the same reason we are mentioning here.

As I have stated before I am very much against having something labeled incorrectly. It promotes improper husbandry issues and can be very harmful to the new keeper and more importantly the snake. Keep sending your emails, but be careful that one of our own arguements does not come back to bite us.

-Thomas

[Stefan-A]

I understand that no one here wants them banned, but if we start bringing up terms like mildly venomous, that is just adding fuel to an all ready growing fire in some cases. Someone may see that as a reason to ban them. Lyre snakes and true Keelbacks are already banned in my state, for simply the same reason we are mentioning here.

I don't think it's a very good strategy to just attempt to avoid getting species banned for as long as possible. If you're lucky, you'll be allowed to keep Tamagotchis when they're finished banning every type of pet that anyone wants banned. You can't win by letting the fire burn itself out.

[aSnakeLovinBabe]

I understand that no one here wants them banned, but if we start bringing up terms like mildly venomous, that is just adding fuel to an all ready growing fire in some cases. Someone may see that as a reason to ban them. Lyre snakes and true Keelbacks are already banned in my state, for simply the same reason we are mentioning here.

As I have stated before I am very much against having something labeled incorrectly. It promotes improper husbandry issues and can be very harmful to the new keeper and more importantly the snake. Keep sending your emails, but be careful that one of our own arguements does not come back to bite us.

-Thomas

your concern and heart is in the right place, however, there is no point to conceal information. That's how accidents happen, if a person knows to handle with relative caution, then they are much less likely to get bit. Mildly venomous is the correct term. To "hide" that fact, or neglect to acknowledge it, would be ignorant on my part, and misleading to others. When people ask me if a snake like that is "harmless" I respond, "99% of the time, yes. But they should still be handled with caution and awareness." If my use of mildly venomous concerns them, they can research that term and realize that it's not a major threat. They sell hognoses and they already know that they are rear fanged and mildly venomous. I will continue to use the proper terminology when referring to rear fanged snakes, I will not allow a slightly possible ban to intimidate me or inhibit my use of terminology and information.

[And_Lyn]

your concern and heart is in the right place, however, there is no point to conceal information. That's how accidents happen, if a person knows to handle with relative caution, then they are much less likely to get bit. Mildly venomous is the correct term. To "hide" that fact, or neglect to acknowledge it, would be ignorant on my part, and misleading to others. When people ask me if a snake like that is "harmless" I respond, "99% of the time, yes. But they should still be handled with caution and awareness." If my use of mildly venomous concerns them, they can research that term and realize that it's not a major threat. They sell hognoses and they already know that they are rear fanged and mildly venomous. I will continue to use the proper terminology when referring to rear fanged snakes, I will not allow a slightly possible ban to intimidate me or inhibit my use of terminology and information.

Preach it to me, sista!

I like reading your posts. They are always well thought out and intelligent

[Loren]

it's supposed to be the reason that they outlawed the keeping of lyre snakes in california.

I'm not aware of any ban on Lyres in Ca. Current regs allow 2 with a fishing license.

[MasSalvaje]

I will continue to use the proper terminology when referring to rear fanged snakes, I will not allow a slightly possible ban to intimidate me or inhibit my use of terminology and information.

I would hope so, I am in no way against proper identification or verbage. My point is that if we are going to use the term of "mildly venomous" with species you have referred to, by your own rule above and one I am with you on, you must also apply that same title to Thamnophis.

And Loren I live in Utah where Keelbacks and the Lyre are controlled species. I was mistaken however, the Lyre is not controlled because of its mild venom like the Keelback. It is controlled because of its restricted range with in the state, so thank you for in advertantly addressing that.

-Thomas