Easterns that I have met

[stonyloam]

It has been about a year since I found this site and this has been a wonderfully fun and informative, so I was just thinking about some of the things that I have learned over the last 12 months. Just as a disclaimer, you have to remember that I probably don’t know what I am talking about, but that never stopped me before, so here goes. I remember first looking through this site and seeing all of the beautiful snakes that people had, red sided, San Francisco’s, checkered etc, and all I ever saw were plane old easterns Thamnophis sirtalis sirtalis (they don’t call them “common” garters for nothing). I have since changed my mind. I have seen a bunch of snakes this past year, and I don’t think that I have seen two that were alike, and the color variations were really incredible. I grouped “my” snakes into three descriptive catagories: (1) “normal” eastern (distinctive unbroken dorsal stripe, large distinct spots), (2) “combo” easterns (dorsal stripe completely broken by spots), and (3) “maybe” maritime garters (no or very faint stripe, smaller spots merging together to almost form stripes across the back). Below are some photos to show what I am talking about.

Eastern: this is my Big gravid eastern from last summer, she is a classic eastern, showing the distinctive dorsal stripe and spots, below her is a beautiful darker classic eastern that I found out by the pool.






Combo: This little snake shows classic eastern stripe, but the stripe is broken by spots.



Maybe: These are really nice little snakes. I have found four of these. The first is my blue garter, and the second is a little guy with mahogany colored spots and no stripe (below). The third is Chloe, now residing with Rhea the fourth is big green (in this months photo contest). When I saw ASLB’s “golden hypo” I thought, wow that pattern looks a lot like my “Maritimes”. I am now wondering if this may be a recessive genetic trait within the eastern population. The other thing that is interesting about this group is the color variation. Chloe and "big green" were green, the blue was of course blue, the other was brown, and then there was the gold that ASLB found.



Anyway I just thought i would toss this out to start some discussion. Other pix would be great.

[EdgyExoticReptiles]

that blue one and green one are maritimes,I think the color variations of the maritime are not genetic but i dont know that for sure, also i think the reason "ASLB"'s eastern looked like a maritime because its hypo-ness accentuated the spots that the maritimes have, also if you can find me an extreme pair (or pairs) of either blues or greens ill pay good money for them, i would really like to get them so if you think you can get them please contact me.
thanks,
Reed

[Snaky]

Very interesting thread start, like always Terry. I don't have the expertise on this field, since I don't even have an eastern, nor a maritime and as such I've never investigated on it. But I'll be monitoring the thread

[aSnakeLovinBabe]

that blue one and green one are maritimes

I have to disagree with that statement, those are easterns. I find garters of all three types that stonyloam mentioned and I too, break them down into those three color groups. Remember, where I go herping is far our of the range of any maritimes (pennsylvania)

I have a female eastern that's identical to the last pic in the first post here. Guess I need to show you guys what I mean and take some more pics!!!

[GarterGuy]

Yeh, Maritimes and Easterns are really similar....it's really hard to differenciate between them, especially in areas where their ranges over lap and they more then likely are integrading. Guess the only "true" Maritimes would be ones from the maritime areas such as Nova Scotia and surrounding islands. That is pretty much their stronghold, since both Easterns and Maritimes are found together pretty much everywhere else.

[aSnakeLovinBabe]

I'm not even really convinced that maritimes and easterns should be separate subspecies. honestly, I look at a maritime, and I look at an eastern without a stripe, and I see the same snake. what if the maritimes in their "stronghold" are actually just isolated easterns that have happened to favor a stripeless coloration?

[EdgyExoticReptiles]

could be true but im my experiences maritimes seem to be a bit smaller but that could also be just chance from being isolated

I'm not even really convinced that maritimes and easterns should be separate subspecies. honestly, I look at a maritime, and I look at an eastern without a stripe, and I see the same snake. what if the maritimes in their "stronghold" are actually just isolated easterns that have happened to favor a stripeless coloration?

[Serpentine99]

I'm not even really convinced that maritimes and easterns should be separate subspecies. honestly, I look at a maritime, and I look at an eastern without a stripe, and I see the same snake. what if the maritimes in their "stronghold" are actually just isolated easterns that have happened to favor a stripeless coloration?

Well although i agree they are similar, the fact is subspecies are made by a part of one species being isolated from the rest of the general population and developing unique traits. A classic example would be Darwin's findings on the variety different finches in the world, they had many adaptations(mainly beak design) that help them be more "fit" for their environment. In a few years we may see maritime be significantly different than the eastern, length for example like reed said, all because of certain mutations the maritime subspecies has gone through to become more fit for the northern environment.

[GarterGuy]

I'm not even really convinced that maritimes and easterns should be separate subspecies. honestly, I look at a maritime, and I look at an eastern without a stripe, and I see the same snake. what if the maritimes in their "stronghold" are actually just isolated easterns that have happened to favor a stripeless coloration?

Yeh I know....that's the problem with a lot of subspecies. I mean San Fran. garters could just be considered the "striped" phase of Cali. redsideds. They look almost exactly alike, except one has red bars and the other red stripes. A lot of subspecies are very "subject" and often they appear and vanish all the time.
I'd be very interested in hearing the results of the study, but very fearful at the same time. I love my Maritimes, but if the subspecies is found to not be valid, then I won't be able to keep and breed them here in PA any more....which would REALLY suck!

[drache]

great photos, Terry
I have seen a lot of variation in Easterns - particularly here
Sammy, my old-time favourite, looks different again
she's almost black, with pale yellow dorsal stripe
her pattern is not really visible
but she does have those little red spots on the side
I'll have to get a good shot of her outside when it gets nicer