Peeling Belly scales....

[Jake Dubz]

Hey guys-
Theres been something about my snake thats been bothering me the last week or so- It seems his belly scales are "peeling" like theirs a clear scales that are coming off. If this normal shedding?? could it be the fact he's gotten fatter since being captive and he's getting larger? or is it something like lack of nutrients. he sits in his water dish allot, could this be doing something??? ( heard pythons get messd up from too much moisture) Thanx allot guys- i'm kinda concerned about this, only about 3 have come off in random spots of his body... but they're all kinda starting to it seems

[adamanteus]

Hi Jake. No, it's not normal, and it's not an overweight issue. Is there any indication that he is about to slough? Have his eyes been blue etc? If not, I would guess that it is the beginnings of a skin/scale problem, probably caused, as you guessed, by spending long periods of time in his water bowl. Permanent wet conditions can cause scale rot in Garters, which is very nasty.

You need to look at the reasons why he might be in the water too much. Is the temperature too high for him? Does he have mites? Is the substrate dirty or of an unsuitable material? Are you using some form of cleaning agent that might be irritating his skin?

You should maybe think about going right back to basics here, Jake.....the most obvious things can be the easiest to overlook. Either way I wouldn't want to ignore this problem for long.

[GrapefruiTgirl]

Glad you mentioned this, Jake. My garter snake also has a few belly scales which have clear scales. If I leave them, they ultimately work their way off, as they are barely attached.
I figured they were leftovers from a shed; when/where I found her initially, there was a shed skin nearby, which was not one big uniform skin, but was missing bits and pieces here and there. I now see why.
For the record, my snake spends relatively little time in the water; she goes in for a dip occasionally, and drinks, but rarely sits in the water for more than a minute, usually less. Her tank's humidity is near the level of my home, which isn't very humid on average, and her skin otherwise looks very healthy.

I have removed a number of the clear scales, when they are kinda half-off, and I think she is nearing shedding time, so I look forward to updating this if/after she does, and also learning why this is, particularly if it is bad.

[GrapefruiTgirl]

I should have mentioned too, she was gravid when I found her (I just thought she was 'chubby' but I found 8 or 10 little snakies in her tank one morning), and so she is thinner than she was when I found her. I thought this also may have had something to do with it, as her skin is slightly looser, particularly at the abdomen, since she gave birth.

[adamanteus]

Sasha, it sounds as though your snake had a rather unsuccessful shed last time. Next time she sheds check that the skin is complete and let us know the outcome. I rather suspect that your situation is different from Jakes', but it's worth keeping an eye on it. Keep us updated, okay?

[GrapefruiTgirl]

Will definitely keep the forum updated, regarding if/when she sheds next.
Sure does seem like an abnormal amount of in-water time for Jakes snake. Any chance perhaps she's trying to drown mites off of herself, or something of that nature maybe?

If it's a skin infection (external problem only) then a warm bath for about 1/2 hour several times per week for several weeks has been recommended on several information sites I have been on lately. The bath would be a diluted Iodophore (Iodine) solution, colored as weak tea would appear. Initially, in the case of mites, the snake would get a plain water bath to
a) drown off the mites
b) let her drink if she wishes
c) let her defecate if she likes.

Be sure to immerse the snakes head a few times too, as the mites are reportedly quick to move up the snakes body to the neck/head when it is in water. Not to worry, she's quite able to go under water for short periods, but please don't drown her

Then draw a new bath with the iodine solution and let her swim in it for a while, making sure she can keep her head above water.

Ref: Melissa Kaplan herp. sites as I recall.

[adamanteus]

Any chance perhaps she's trying to drown mites off of herself, or something of that nature maybe?

That was one of my thoughts on this.

If it's a skin infection (external problem only) then a warm bath for about 1/2 hour several times per week for several weeks has been recommended

I think at this point it might be wise to avoid further bathing, until a diagnosis is reached.

Initially, in the case of mites, the snake would get a plain water bath to drown off the mites. Be sure to immerse the snakes head a few times too, as the mites are reportedly quick to move up the snakes body to the neck/head when it is in water.

Again, I think too much bathing at this point could make matters worse. I would recommend a proprietory mite remedy. (If mites are the problem).

I suspect it may be as simple as cooling the enclosure down to encourage the snake out of the water bowl.

Jake, Sasha...any chance you could both post pictures of the skin conditions? This would be of benefit to others in the future and might help us to identify the problem.

[GrapefruiTgirl]

Next time I have my snake out (which **may** be tonight) I will definitely try to get a few pictures of her, both to post in general, plus maybe I can get a shot of one or two of the clear loose scales. Likely it'll be a hard to capture item, they being so small and clear, but will try. We have a digital camera, and it *might* be able to render such an image.
As I speak, I am now quite certain she will be shedding soon. I don't know how soon, as this will be her first captive shed, so I've no experience, but her eyes are rapidly getting milky-bluish, more so each day.

PS - Good idea on avoiding the bathing, of any sort, for Jake's snake until some sort of difinitive diagnosis is made.

(Sorry if this is hijacking the thread -- LOL I'll go start my own after taking some pictures)

[adamanteus]

No hijacking problems here! It will be good to compare the two cases/outcomes!

[adamanteus]

These loose, clear scales.......are they really, really fine (thin) and transparent? More so than regular shed skin? That question to both of you.