Shipping discussions

[ConcinusMan]

I buy sheets of insulation. Either foam board or 1/2 inch-3/4 inch styrofoam. I cut it to size (so the pieces fit tight) and line the boxes. Any time of year, this insulates the snakes from sudden temperature changes. I've tested it out in 90 degree heat. It takes many hours for the inside to warm up to 90. Same thing when I put them in the freezer. Takes a long time for the inside to get too cold.

Then the snakes are placed in hard plastic containers (melt small air holes in it and line with paper towel) that are small enough that the snakes are cramped in there. This prevents them from bouncing around and getting injured. Then wadded newspaper keeps the container from bouncing round inside the box. Whatever you do, don't use flexible containers, containers that can shatter, and don't forget to tape the lid shut securely. DO NOT poke holes in the box or insulation. It's not necessary. I really need to do a video tutorial on snake packing. Proper packing is critical if you want them to get there alive. NEVER use those air-activated heat packs. They will consume all the oxygen inside the box.

As long as the temperatures are expected to be above freezing at the destination city, or cooler than 90 in the summer, you should be OK. The rest of the trip they will be in climate controlled buildings or aircraft. That's using USPS EXPRESS mail though. Can't vouch for any other method.

[twgrosmick]

I buy sheets of insulation. Either foam board or 1/2 inch-3/4 inch styrofoam. I cut it to size (so the pieces fit tight) and line the boxes. Any time of year, this insulates the snakes from sudden temperature changes. I've tested it out in 90 degree heat. It takes many hours for the inside to warm up to 90. Same thing when I put them in the freezer. Takes a long time for the inside to get too cold.

Then the snakes are placed in hard plastic containers (melt small air holes in it and line with paper towel) that are small enough that the snakes are cramped in there. This prevents them from bouncing around and getting injured. Then wadded newspaper keeps the container from bouncing round inside the box. Whatever you do, don't use flexible containers, containers that can shatter, and don't forget to tape the lid shut securely. DO NOT poke holes in the box or insulation. It's not necessary. I really need to do a video tutorial on snake packing. Proper packing is critical if you want them to get there alive. NEVER use those air-activated heat packs. They will consume all the oxygen inside the box.

As long as the temperatures are expected to be above freezing at the destination city, or cooler than 90 in the summer, you should be OK. The rest of the trip they will be in climate controlled buildings or aircraft. That's using USPS EXPRESS mail though. Can't vouch for any other method.

This is your opinion and while most of it is what I would recommend I only use insulation in extreme temps, rarely if ever use a heat pack unless borderline freezing, and I have always used somewhat flexible deli cups and never had an issue.

I have never lost a snake in over 5 years of shipping. What works for one person doesn't necessarily mean it is the only way. I apologize if I am coming off as attacking you but after reading that post I felt like you were basically saying your way is the only right way to do it and that is not the case.

Back to the original post I shipped to Robert last week with my temps hovering around 40 and his temps at 75. No insulation, no heat packs, and snakes arrived healthy as always.

Also.... Shipping USPS is and always has been ILLEGAL to ship snakes. The only way to legally ship reptiles is to get certified through FedEx or go through a company such as SYR.

[ConcinusMan]

All I am saying is that packaging them wrong can make the difference between live and dead arrival.

I've shipped without it before. Just saying what I do. It also gives the box better strength against crushing. I've shipped without it and had boxes arrive that looked like they had been crushed. Either way, it certainly doesn't hurt anything.

" Shipping USPS is and always has been ILLEGAL to ship snakes" That's a lie. (or at least, a persistent erroneous rumor) Perhaps against their policy at some point, but not illegal. (I just did it a few weeks ago and they knew exactly what was in the box) and guess what, SYR uses FedEx, or at least they used to. True, some post offices will refuse to take snakes but it's not illegal. Shipping venomous or other hazardous/explosive material is. Bottom line is, if they don't ask, and you don't tell or lie when they ask, you're not breaking the law. They do ask about hazardous, etc. when you ship packages. They don't say a damn thing asking if you're shipping snakes.

The only way to legally ship reptiles is to get certified through FedEx or go through a company such as SYR.

Not true. Never has been true. That information was probably spread by these companies to justify having pay 3 times as much. And SYR just packages them for you and sends via FedEx. It's a rip off.

I've only lost a snake ONCE out of hundreds of shipments and guess what. It was the one, and last time I used something besides USPS. I used FedEx and snake arrived dead. Package was beat all to hell too. Looked like it had been through a chipper. They also charged $90. USPS wanted $48.

[twgrosmick]

" Shipping USPS is and always has been ILLEGAL to ship snakes" That's a lie. (or at least, a persistent erroneous rumor) Perhaps against their policy at some point, but not illegal. (I just did it a few weeks ago and they knew exactly what was in the box) and guess what, SYR uses FedEx, or at least they used to. True, some post offices will refuse to take snakes but it's not illegal. Shipping venomous or other hazardous/explosive material is.

Fedex and the United States Postal Service are totally different in case you weren't aware.

DMM 601 Mailability

Section 8.5 B

They consider snakes harmful matter.... It is most definitely illegal.

Just because your postal workers don't know how to do their job doesn't mean that it is right

[twgrosmick]

Not true. Never has been true. That information was probably spread by these companies to justify having pay 3 times as much. And SYR just packages them for you and sends via FedEx. It's a rip off.

I've only lost a snake ONCE out of hundreds of shipments and guess what. It was the one, and last time I used something besides USPS. I used FedEx and snake arrived dead. Package was beat all to hell too. Looked like it had been through a chipper. They also charged $90. USPS wanted $48.

It amazes me how someone who seems to know it all and shipped so many times would in reality have no idea what the hell they are doing. SYR does not "package them for you and send via FedEx." They allow you to ship through them by agreeing to their terms saying that you are packaging the animal correctly and abiding by their rules and shipping rules. Then as a result you become "certified" for that shipment and can llegally ship through FedEx through them at a discounted rate.

Earlier you said you can't vouch for any other method, now you say that you used FedEx.... which is it?

[twgrosmick]

Bottom line is, if they don't ask, and you don't tell or lie when they ask, you're not breaking the law. They do ask about hazardous, etc. when you ship packages. They don't say a damn thing asking if you're shipping snakes

Wow....

[ConcinusMan]

This is the second time you either misquoted me or flat out totally misinterpreted what I said. I was talking about the temperature conditions. As in, I have no idea if other companies use heated planes, etc. or not.

Also...

"Restricted, and Perishable Mail, contains additional clarification and further describes the conditions of preparation and packaging under which the USPS accepts for mailing potentially harmful matter that is otherwise nonmailable"

Well, I guess their supervisor thinks that my packages meet conditions for making them mailable because they always approve it when there's any question in the worker's mind. They go back and check with their supervisor. I don't tape the packages until I get there. They can look inside and inspect. Bottom line is, if the supervisor at a post office approves it, it ships. Restricted or not.

Big bold letters on the box said "LIVE HARMLESS REPTILE". Funny it ships if it's illegal to do so. Always has shipped for me. No problem.

[twgrosmick]

This is the second time you either misquoted me or flat out totally misinterpreted what I said. I was talking about the temperature conditions. As in, I have no idea if other companies use heated planes, etc. or not.

Also...

"Restricted, and Perishable Mail, contains additional clarification and further describes the conditions of preparation and packaging under which the USPS accepts for mailing potentially harmful matter that is otherwise nonmailable"

Well, I guess their supervisor thinks that my packages meet conditions for making them mailable because they always approve it when there's any question in the worker's mind. They go back and check with their supervisor. I don't tape the packages until I get there. They can look inside and inspect. Bottom line is, if the supervisor at a post office approves it, it ships. Restricted or not.

The link I posted clearly says ALL SNAKES.... What more clarification do you need than that? To sum it all up.... what you are doing is not allowed, you continue to do it anyway because you are cheap and don't want to do it the correct way, and you have no respect for rules or regulations (which you made clear with your little "don't ask don't tell" comment)

[twgrosmick]

Big bold letters on the box said "LIVE HARMLESS REPTILE". Funny it ships if it's illegal to do so. Always has shipped for me. No problem.

I ship lizards through the post office which are allowed and that is exactly what I write on the side so that means absolutely nothing

[ConcinusMan]

The link I posted clearly says ALL SNAKES.... What more clarification do you need than that? To sum it all up.... what you are doing is not allowed, you continue to do it anyway because you are cheap and don't want to do it the correct way, and you have no respect for rules or regulations (which you made clear with your little "don't ask don't tell" comment)

There you go again. I didn't say anything about respect for the regulations. I simply meant to imply that they would have a hell of a time prosecuting (since you say it's "illegal") if they didn't ask. Plus, I already told you. They know what I ship. Yes, I see that "all snakes" are restricted. So what? That doesn't mean it's illegal and there are conditions under which they will mail restricted items. At my local post offices, apparently showing them that the snakes are for sure packaged securely and that they can't escape, is enough for them to allow it.

What more clarification do you need other than "conditions of preparation and packaging under which the USPS accepts for mailing potentially harmful matter"

This isn't about "what's cheap" it's about not using services that are clearly a rip off. Your "discounted" rates are still way higher than USPS express mail.