Garter newbie, questions about age and feeding, enclosure size

[nekomi]

Hi everyone,

I'm new to this forum and new to Thamnophis. I just picked up a young (1 year old) Puget Sound female from a breeder on Sunday. I'm already loving this little one's personality - I think I'm hooked on garters now.

I'm already very experienced with snakes, and own a small colony of green tree pythons as well as a couple other boids. I've also kept North American ratsnakes before. But, I'm completely new to Thamnophis and wondering about a few things.

First, when folks on this forum mention "juvenile" and "subadult" and "adult" garters, what age ranges are we talking? I'm not familiar with the growth rate or lifespan of garters. In most boids, a one-year-old is a juvi, but I'm guessing that in garters, my one-year-old is possibly a subadult?

When feeding, do you typically feed as much as the snake will eat in a sitting? I dropped 10 feeder guppies in a dish for my Puget yesterday. She ate 5, then stopped and went to bask, so I removed the others. I have the ingredients for Tilapia/Salmon jello in my fridge right now, so I'm going to try and switch her to that as soon as I can.

At what age do you consider the snake large enough to move into its final enclosure/vivarium? My plan is to build a large display viv with live plants and a small community of female garters (3 - 4). My little one is still only 8" long (which seems small for a yearling Puget, can anyone advise on this?) but highly active.

Thanks for any suggestions or information. I'm really enjoying this little snake, and really wish that garters weren't so underrated in the hobby!

[adamanteus]

Hi Amanda, and welcome to the forum.
I have a pair of pickeringii, I found them to be very small and slow growing in the early months, particularly the female, but they they suddenly 'took off' and are now on a par with any other Garter Snake of their age.

[gregmonsta]

Greetings
I always put them in the biggest enclosure possible every time. Garters love to roam and they'll love you for it.

[Stefan-A]

Welcome aboard.

First, when folks on this forum mention "juvenile" and "subadult" and "adult" garters, what age ranges are we talking?

I suppose I go according to the development of the animal. A juvenile is an animal that hasn't reached sexual maturity or adult size, which in garters can vary a bit, I suppose. I have a snake less than a year old that already appears to be sexually mature, so it's in one sense of the word an "adult". Perhaps "subadult" should be used in that case, considering that it hasn't quite reached its adult size.

When feeding, do you typically feed as much as the snake will eat in a sitting? I dropped 10 feeder guppies in a dish for my Puget yesterday. She ate 5, then stopped and went to bask, so I removed the others. I have the ingredients for Tilapia/Salmon jello in my fridge right now, so I'm going to try and switch her to that as soon as I can.

Personally, I try to feed my snakes a certain percentage of their weight in food every week, but I don't think of it as a science.

At what age do you consider the snake large enough to move into its final enclosure/vivarium?

I think this is a matter of personal preference, but I do it gradually as the snake grows.

I'm really enjoying this little snake, and really wish that garters weren't so underrated in the hobby!

So do we.

[drache]

welcome to the forum

[nekomi]

Thanks for all the great info!! I really appreciate it.

Stefan, if you don't mind my asking, what percentage of their weight do you aim for each week? I have a gram scale here, so it wouldn't be too hard to get an accurate weight on the little Puget.

Regarding the enclosure size - I see that there are some different opinions represented. Do garters typically have the same stress problems as other snakes, when placed in enclosures that are too large? Maybe this is something that will come down to the individual animal?

Also, can a garter be too young for housing in a community? I've read that garters do seem to thrive in the company of others, so I'd love to get her a couple cagemates from Scott this spring.

[guidofatherof5]

Welcome to the forum, Amanda.
Garter have some kind of magic. I can sit and watch them for hours. Okay, I don't have hours to do that but if I did I would. The problem with just watching is the messages they send, "pick me up", "feed me". They seem to be as interested in us as we are with them. I wish they were more appreciated, also.
Glad you're with us.

[Stefan-A]

Stefan, if you don't mind my asking, what percentage of their weight do you aim for each week? I have a gram scale here, so it wouldn't be too hard to get an accurate weight on the little Puget.

About 5-10% when you feed them mice, fish around 20% and worms as much as they'll eat. Juveniles get more. But like I said, it's not a science.

Regarding the enclosure size - I see that there are some different opinions represented. Do garters typically have the same stress problems as other snakes, when placed in enclosures that are too large? Maybe this is something that will come down to the individual animal?

Can't verify that they do. They are, after all, active foragers and tend to move a bit more than most other snakes.

Also, can a garter be too young for housing in a community? I've read that garters do seem to thrive in the company of others, so I'd love to get her a couple cagemates from Scott this spring.

A few things should be kept in mind, if you're going to house them in a community. Gender, size differences and species.

[GarterGeek]

Congratulations on your first garter!

A rule of thumb I usually follow for enclosure size is: The length and width of the enclosure should add up to the length of the snake.

As far as I know, garter's grow to be between 3 and 4ft long, which should give you an idea about final enclosure size.
For housing multiple Garters I'd tack on 3-4 extra inches for each additional snake. Also, utilizing the volume of the enclosure with logs and plants for climbing should help give them enough extra room. Only snakes of similar size should be kept together.

I'm not exactly sure, but I've heard that maturity in snakes is based on length and not age. Isn't the mature length for garters, about 1.5 - 2ft?

[bkhuff1s]

Welcome, I have a (hopefully) breeding pair of Pugets and a green tree python as well