san francisco garters

[Tyrel26]

I was wondering if anyone has attempted to breed these garters and reintroduce them into the wild in an effort to help their numbers. I am fairly new to the breeding aspect of these snakes but the people here seem very good at it. So has anyone (that you know of) attempted this? and are there even any snakes available to breed in the first place.

I know that after a few generations of breeding in captivity it wouldn't be a good idea to release these snakes but what about catching gravid females and raising the young to a more favorable size to increase the odds of survival?

maybe this idea is very far fetched but i figured id toss it out there to try and get some feedback.

thanks for reading

[Stefan-A]

Their numbers isn't really a problem. The problem is that big concrete and asphalt thing, right in the middle of their former habitat, called San Francisco.

Anyway, it shouldn't even be attempted if it's not a part of a larger organized effort.

[ConcinusMan]

There is plenty of organized effort. There is enough wild snakes to keep the species from going extinct. BARELY. The main focus is, and needs to be, preservation and restoration of suitable habitat. Unfortunately, real estate prices are very high and the developers desire the same landscape that the snakes depend on. Also, development around the existing populations is hurting them due to runoff and other water quality issues, and the waning frog populations. Even in existing suitable habitat, where the there are no frogs, there are no garters either. It's a complex environmental situation that they depend on for survival.

Simply increasing their numbers by introducing captive bred snakes won't help. The excess population will just die off.

It's a catch 22 situation by NOT allowing collecting. As the gene pool narrows, hope for keeping the species alive even if only in captivity, fades.

It is well known that the CB European population is having problems due to a shallow gene pool.

If it weren't for several federal laws enacted since my birth in 1970, I'm sure they would already be extinct.

[Stefan-A]

Simply increasing their numbers by introducing captive bred snakes won't help. The excess population will just die off.

Indeed. Release enough and they'll deplete the food source and take a large portion of the wild population with them when they starve to death.

[ConcinusMan]

Anyone who thinks that any certain species is any more important than another, within a specific ecosystem is mistaken. Ecosystems are a delicate balance which cannot be contained in small reservations surrounded by development. The problem with SF garters is that they are a ways up on the food chain. If the native amphibians suffer, so do the garters.

Predators that eat garters can adapt to new prey. The garters cannot.

[Stefan-A]

Anyone who thinks that any certain species is any more important than another, within a specific ecosystem is mistaken.

Well, strictly speaking that's not really the case. The impact on the ecosystem if you wipe out something like earthworms or mosquitoes, is far more severe, than if you wipe out a reptile or mammal (there are exceptions, of course). Some species are more important than others, if the functioning of the ecosystem is how you measure importance.

[Tyrel26]

excellent points guys, im glad to see people taking part in this post.

you would think that there would be a way to issue a few special permits to allow breeders to collect a pair of snakes to breed just once before returning the pair to the wild and still be able to keep the offspring.

I studied conservation in college (and today i got a call about a conservation job, finally seems i will be a conservation officer!!!!) and i take great interest in these issues. the sad truth is that the only way to conserve this snake may be through captive breeding, but at least thats something. I wish the people in charge of these issues knew just how much you guys care for your snakes and that you guys aren't just some fools with snakes in a tank and would give at least a couple people like yourselves the oppurnity to breed these snakes. I am willing to bet there are already a few in private collections, legal or not.

who knows, maybe in the future someone will get that opportunity.

thanks for reading
tyrel

[Jeff B]

"the sad truth is that the only way to conserve this snake may be through captive breeding, but at least thats something."

I don't think it's a sad truth, but it is probably a reality that captive breeding is the only hope for a population with inevitably zero remaining natural habitat. I guess the other possiblity is relocation to similar habitat?

"I wish the people in charge of these issues knew just how much you guys care for your snakes and that you guys aren't just some fools with snakes in a tank and would give at least a couple people like yourselves the oppurnity to breed these snakes. I am willing to bet there are already a few in private collections, legal or not.

who knows, maybe in the future someone will get that opportunity."

I wish the people in charge would have your vision as well, I would love to work with them. I personally do not know anyone in the US with any underground San Frans. It certainly wouldn't be worth it for me to mess with them, but if someone "in charge" asked me to try to breed them and granted me legal priveledges, I would love to work with them.

[ssssnakeluvr]

I would love to work with them too!!

[Tyrel26]

well i am from canada so i dont know how the laws down there go with respect to endangered animals. I would imagine that these garters, like many others, would be fairly easy to breed (yes i am aware that it takes a lot of work to do this proper) and housing wouldnt be a problem for such a small animal.
Has anyone contacted the conservation officials on this? maybe it is possible to obtain a permit or work cooperatively with a zoo or reserve of some type. Of course there would never be any selling of the animals even if they are bred, but the true payoff would be just getting the chance to work with them.
At any rate it may be worth looking into, if you can find the right person a permit may be a possibility, worst anyone can say is no. Granted the chances of this working are very slim but theres still a chance; and like most great ideas it all starts with one person. it would be nice if it started with one of the people from here.

Ill try to send out a few emails (though I would not ask for a pair for myself in any event), if nothing else i may get some good information.

thanks for reading
Tyrel