Substrate

[lauwersp]

Hey everyone...

Well... after going through the care sheet, I had an idea... *sigh* I THINK it's fine but I want to run it by everyone. I decided to try shredded paper as I happen to create that stuff all the time.

What happens to snakes when they ingest paper? I want to think it should be ok as a lot of the "official" substrate is paper based... but mine, of course, coming out of a shredded has toner or printing press ink on it.

Anyway... I totally redid his home tonight and removed all the dirt and sticks and anything that could have had any parasites it in.

Please chime in on thoughts on the substrate though... I won't sleep well until I think he's safe.

This dude CHOWS down. In the past week he's eaten 13-14 minnows this week. In fact... After I completely redid his tank I put the last 5 minnows I had in the water bowl thinking he was going to want time to adjust to COMPLETELY new surroundings. Nope. Bam Bam Bam Bam Bam... all fishies GONE.

Thanks for the advice everyone!


Peter

[lauwersp]

And he still wants MORE... he's rootin around in his water dish trying to eat more fish (which there aren't any more of). I know someone said they typically won't over eat, but how many SHOULD I be giving him... roughly of course.

[Tyrel26]

i cant say what paper will do but i never feed my snakes in their enclosure. I use a plastic container (tupperware kinda deal only a big one) with nothing in it other than the snake and its food. a cardboard box would also work fine but it will absorb fish and worm slime and therefore smell after a time.
Also try not to overfeed. Its instinct for these guys to "chow down" in the wild cause is harder to find and they use a lot of energy getting it.

[guidofatherof5]

Not sure about possible problems from shredded copier paper.
I have to point out to you about most minnows. They contain thiaminase which will eventually cause neurological issues(B1 deficiency) and kill the snake. Minnows can also carry a parasite load.
Very few minnows are safe for garters.

[ConcinusMan]

thiamanase shmiamanase. Mayonnaise for that matter. Raised garters for years before anyone heard of such a thing. With a varied diet, I saw no sign of disease. In fact, the pair lived exceptionally long lives.

Still, Lauwersp, you should try to get them feeding on frozen/thawed silversides. Most snakes that will eat live fish can be easily converted over to thawed fish. Might also want to try slipping in some pinkies in their fish.

I know some garters aren't very enthusiastic about feeding on dead food. Get a ceramic or non-porous dish and put some fish in it and give them a few hours and some privacy in their enclosure if you're using a safe substrate. Sometimes, the fish disappear when you're not looking. A few hours after "sunup" when the snakes do their basking, get up to temperature, and then.. that's the perfect time to feed or try new foods. Holding back food for a week can also help.

As far as the paper goes, newspaper is relatively safe, including the ink as far as I know. Don't use the glossy ad type paper. You can shred regular newspaper by hand very easily. If swallowed, it doesn't present a problem. It's easily digested.

[infernalis]

What ever happened to pinkies??

My snakes thrive on pinkies, and a few good folks I know stick with pinkies, and the garters do fine.

[guidofatherof5]

thiamanase shmiamanase. Mayonnaise for that matter. Raised garters for years before anyone heard of such a thing. With a varied diet, I saw no sign of disease. In fact, the pair lived exceptionally long lives.

Still, Lauwersp, you should try to get them feeding on frozen/thawed silversides. Most snakes that will eat live fish can be easily converted over to thawed fish. Might also want to try slipping in some pinkies in their fish.

Unless you've seen a snake die from this I'm not sure you will ever take it seriously. Granted, you do tout the benefits of a balanced diet but your first statements trivialize a serious problem that causes the death of many snakes. It is a terrible death and if waving a red flag about minnow/goldfish will help one garter snake from that fate then call me a flag waver.

I'm glad that your snakes lived as long as they did but stop wearing it like a badge. We have all made mistakes and when information comes out about a better way to raise and care for garter snakes we should be on the front lines getting the word out. I too have kept garters for years and for years I too fed minnows. I was not as lucky as you were and I have see what a B1 deficiency can do to a snake. I remember all to well.

[ConcinusMan]

I'm just sayin' No symptoms. And I'm sure the snakes in the wild don't give a dang what kind of fish it is, they're gonna eat it. However, they have a wide variety of foods at their disposal. Feeding a CB garter almost exclusively on thiamanase containing fish is surely asking for trouble.

I've never seen a fish-loving snake that cares what kind of fish it is, dead or alive, so why not just use fish that don't contain thiamanase? Try the silversides is what I recommend.

[lauwersp]

Well... as far as minnows go, they were temporary... I'm switching to frozen fish... As far as pinkies go, I live in rural rural Michigan and I'm not very close to a source for pinkies (that I know of). I'm going to have to have solutions that don't depend on the pet store.

With that in mind, what is the best type of frozen fish to get?

[Mommy2many]

You can get silversides from Petco. They come frozen and garters seem to take to them. You can also alternate feedings with nightcrawlers (Walmart sells them in their fishing dept.) I also use pinkies and fresh salmon from any supermarket's fish dept. (Doesn't have to be the really expensive stuff)

In a pinch or with fussy eaters, a few minnows won't harm your snake but this should not be its steady diet. Creating a varied diet helps the snake get the supplements it needs naturally. Calcium is found in the pinks and the whole fish. Worms, I like to say, are like the mac'n cheese for my garters. They really love them but not much to them!

Good luck & welcome!