How to Setup Terrarium for Checkered Garters?

[OregonHerpaholic]

Hi all. I have 4 checkered garters I want to setup a somewhat natural environment for. I have been keeping them in the traditional snake setup(rubbermaid shoeboxes) and they hate it! They seem depressed and just miserable. They don't move around, breeding has not happened, and it is like they are just exsisting and not living.

So, Want to change this. I have nice 55gal I can play with. I want to create a habitat that will help these guys thrive, and if they breed so be it. I want real plants, real substrate (will be using something with Eucalyptus to keep mites away) . But what else can I use? The info on these guys is that they come from Arid and Semi-arid areas of Texas but around ponds. So I am thinking dry, hot and humid?

Any Ideas? Anyone have pics of terrariums they have created?

Thanks in advance,

Billie aka Oregonherpaholic

[guidofatherof5]

Seems I've read something about eucalyptus as possibly creating respiratory problems. There's something about oil based saps that cause problems. If your snakes don't have mites as a rule the mites won't search them out. Mites are usually introduced into a group when strict quarantine times aren't observed. I was nailed with that very problem last year and it was my fault.

Sounds like you've got an idea of what you want to do. Give them a place to warm up and a place to cool down. Water enough to soak in. Live plants are great but the soil can harbor bugs/pests that can cause problems. Plastic plants can be thrown in the dishwasher and sanitized easily.
There are a lot of ideas on substrates right here on the forum. We all don't agree and that's fine. You need to find what works best for you and most important, your snakes. I use compressed aspen pellets. They quickly absorb moister and let me know where it is at.
I recommend a bottom heater. Zoo-Med makes a lot of different size ones.
Best of luck and keep us informed on your progress.

[OregonHerpaholic]

Well, At moment I do have a mite problem, I had them in a 20 long with aspen and I am now fighting a huge mite problem. The garters are the worse off...lost all the babies to mites. Am thinking the stress of the close quarters caused the problem. (they did not have mites when I bought them).

I moved them into tubs to fight the mites, but they are not eating, the albinos look like "s". Hoping something natural will bring them around but don't know how to keep the mites away(which was the reason for the eucalyptus bedding).

The Terrarium won't be setup until mites are GONE. But will give me time to prep it for them.

Billie

[drache]

put them on newspaper
change it often
the mites will not go away by themselves, and they will kill your snakes, if you do not take action
there are several ways to treat them and the more natural ones tend to be more labour intensive
sometimes substrate from the store comes with mites, which is why I pre-treat all my substrate against mites - it's not worth it being lax about the little buggers
be diligent with whatever treatment you pick - you owe it to your snakes
here's some previous discussions on the subject:
http://www.thamnophis.com/forum/show...ighlight=mites
http://www.thamnophis.com/forum/show...ighlight=mites
these are random, but I seem to recall them covering a lot of info
I hope your remaining snakes will make it through alright

[OregonHerpaholic]

I have been treating them for mites for 2 months now. No new mites have been seen on the garters, but other snakes in the room now have them. I treat EVERY SNAKE EVERY 2 WEEKS. All In plastic tubs and on white paper towels. It is the behavior of the garters that has me worried about the stress of it all...not eating, not moving around, just not responding well to the bare basic life.

[aSnakeLovinBabe]

you are right about one thing, garters hate living in tubs. If you use a very large tub and you set it up just like you would a tank, with lots of hides, climbing things, etc, it would not be so bad but i tried tubs for my garters and they hated it, and so did I. I am so happy that I finally see someone else commenting on how they are just existing and not living! That's how I felt. They seem so unhappy.

As for mites, they SUCK! I dealt with them once, I hope never again. I used provent-a-mite to treat my problem... I have a TON of snakes and the mites just kept circulating, dissapearing here but then re-appearing here... when I was using other products. Not all mite treatments are the same... or equal! Zoo med's mite off, Nature's Chemistry de-flea reptile relief... they don't work! maybe, if you had one snake and you were really diligent... maybe, but with multiple snakes, no way! Because they rely on the liquid coming in direct contact with the mite to kill it and you will never get them all. Once I go some provent-a-mite, I treated everyone's cage at the same time, and the mites were gone the next day. All of them!!! Dead! I was so happy! And they didn't come back!! Now I use it as a preventative whenever something new arrives. I cannot speak highly enough about that stuff.

[guidofatherof5]

I use Nature's Chemistry de-flea reptile relief. It is more labor intensive and requires repeated treatment but it did it's job for me.

[gregmonsta]

Provent-a-mite gets my vote. No nonsense and the minimum amount of stress on the snakes (you don't even have to change the substrate!) .... I moved the snakes to a different room ..... removed the water bowls, then treated the substrate and carpet surrounding my tanks with a teeny spray of the stuff .... waited 2 hours put the snakes back .... haven't seen mites since.

[ConcinusMan]

Hi all. I have 4 checkered garters I want to setup a somewhat natural environment for. I have been keeping them in the traditional snake setup(rubbermaid shoeboxes) and they hate it! They seem depressed and just miserable. They don't move around, breeding has not happened, and it is like they are just exsisting and not living.

You would probably feel the same way if you had to live in closet. I don't know why you would call it a "traditional snake setup". Those are mainly used by breeders or large collections where the entire room is heated. Works OK for nocturnal species such as pythons or milk snakes. Works OK if you want to "warehouse" a lot of snakes.

So, Want to change this. I have nice 55gal I can play with. I want to create a habitat that will help these guys thrive, and if they breed so be it. I want real plants, real substrate (will be using something with Eucalyptus to keep mites away) . But what else can I use? The info on these guys is that they come from Arid and Semi-arid areas of Texas but around ponds. So I am thinking dry, hot and humid?

Any Ideas? Anyone have pics of terrariums they have created?

Thanks in advance,

Billie aka Oregonherpaholic

A naturalistic vivarium can be a PITA and when it comes to garters, cleanliness is important so it must be easy to clean. The snakes couldn't care less if plants are real or not. What you are suggesting is for the owner, not the snakes. They don't care. If your snakes are comfortable and their needs are met, they won't be depressed. How are providing the necessary heat and light in a plastic shoe box?

Breeding doesn't just "happen". It's induced by changes of the season. They must come out of a winter period thinking it's spring.

What I would do is get rid of those mites. There's only one product that really works. Proventamite. Then , for a natural look in the 55gal you should use reptile bark about 1.5 inches deep. I mix in some loose coconut fiber to help absorb fecal matter, making it easier to remove. A large artificial stone water basin, some hides, plastic plants, and perhaps a climbing log or two (make sure they can't topple and hurt the snakes) and you got a natural looking setup without the PITA of an actual natural setup. A ceramic heat emitter or basking light on one end (outside the screen top) placed where snakes can't get too close, and a florescent fixture for light. A temperature gradient from 70 to 90 degrees during the day, cooler at night. Regular day/night cycle. The latter two are more important than you might think.

The checkered garters are not found near water for the humidity. They are there for water and prey items. 50-70 percent should be fine.

The viv in this video looks great and is functional is pretty much what I was getting at: http://www.boatips.com/snakehabitatsetup/

As tempting as it may be to substitute items from outside, I wouldn't recommend it. If you want a natural looking viv, without problems, it's going to cost.

[OregonHerpaholic]

>Works OK if you want to "warehouse" a lot of snakes.

I currently have 2 racks that used to house 30+ snakes. I am now down to about a dozen.

> How are providing the necessary heat and light in a plastic shoe box?

Heated Rack system, heat tape and lighted room with timer

>Breeding doesn't just "happen". It's induced by changes of the season. They must come out of a winter period thinking it's spring.

I did the cooling thing this year. Had to bring them out because I found mites. This is my 3rd year with these garters and 2nd trying to breed them, I got 1 single baby and LOTS of slugs

>As tempting as it may be to substitute items from outside, I wouldn't recommend it.

I NEVER use ANYTHING from the "wild", never have and never will