Feeding Frogs?

[Ibkukin]

I have been feeding my garter snake small frogs which I catch outside. I have tons of them outside and they are always readily available certain times of the year. He seems to like them very much and I never have trouble getting him to eat. As a matter of fact he will immdediately eat as many as I put in there every day. He is about 13" long.

I have two questions.

1. Are frogs good for him to eat?

2. How many should I give him and how often?

Thanks!

[guidofatherof5]

Welcome to the forum. Glad you joined.
Frogs are good but be aware they do tend to carry parasites. Switching him over to a more safe food(nightcrawlers, salmon,tilapia, guppies, f/t(frozen/thawed) pinkies) gives a much less chance he'll have a heavy parasite load.
Finding a good Herp. Vet in your area is a good thing to know whether you use them right away or not. Getting a fecal sample in for a parisite screen will give you peace of mind after you switch him over on food. Giving a variety in a diet is great. Many, if not all foods have pros and cons. Giving variety balances that all out.

If possible post a photo so he can be identified.
I feed my babies 2 or 3 times a week. Adults get once a week and as a treat twice a week sometimes. Garters will eat everyday but since captive snakes don't get the same amount of exercise it can lead to obesity. I hope this has been helpful and once again, welcome.

[drache]

I wonder about frogs . . .
my thinking is that whatever people can catch in their yards probably has less of a parasite load than anything that's been cycled through the pet industry - not sure why exactly I have that belief

[Ibkukin]

It seems to me that if frogs are something they eat in nature then they should be fine in captivity. Frogs are a good source of lean protien as well as calcium since they have bones. I have read somewhere that if snakes are only fed meat without bones they can get calcium deficiency. I guess I am applying to the snake how I eat. "Fresh and local". Please correct me if I am wrong in my thinking.

[gregmonsta]

As far as I have read the biggest parasite problem with feeding frogs and toads is lungworm.

[Sid]

I wonder about frogs . . .
my thinking is that whatever people can catch in their yards probably has less of a parasite load than anything that's been cycled through the pet industry - not sure why exactly I have that belief

Rhea,
I lost two gravid female garters feeding solely frogs from my yard before knowing of the parasite problem.

I don't think an occasional frog will hurt, but I wouldn't let them be a primary diet.

[drache]

Rhea,
I lost two gravid female garters feeding solely frogs from my yard before knowing of the parasite problem.

I don't think an occasional frog will hurt, but I wouldn't let them be a primary diet.

that's good to know
not that I even have the opportunity
that had to hurt though . . .

[aSnakeLovinBabe]

I myself wonder about the frog thing, and would love to see a bit more factual stuff rather than just everyone repeating that frogs are parasite laden creatures to be avoided at all costs. Is that an actual fact and is there documented proof somewhere that frogs are parasite laden and the risk of spread is super dangerous to our snakes? Or do we just repeat what we heard through the grapevine, that may or not be an assumption that some random herp keeper decided in their mind and started telling people, over and over? I myself have long avoided frogs unless I NEED them for the parasite reason, but not without questioning it heavily. I have used both frogs and salamanders to start finicky eaters, both wild caught snakes and captive bred, both large and small. None of them are dead or sickened of parasites, and I am not talking 1 or 2 snakes here, I am talking many. Frogs are very sensitive creatures themselves, and an overload of parasites or even the slightest change in their environment can kill them rather quickly. I would feed a frog I found in the back yard before I would use one that was ordered from a mass supplier as a feeder, that not only is WC but extremely stressed and sickened. I received feeder frogs with a snake purchase and I didn't want to use them because they looked very worn out, and I set these little tree frogs up and fed them well only to watch all 6 die within two weeks despite my valiant efforts.

The problem with worrying about parasites is that they are simply everywhere, all of the time. Snakes can even get parasites from frozen thawed captive bred rodents. A parasite can make its way into your snake simply by you going out into the yard and bringing eggs in on your shirt or hands and then allowing the snake to contact them. The problem with parasites is that their methods of spreading are invisible to the naked eye, and that not only makes them very efficient at what they do, but very scary and I think sometimes parasite risks give us keepers a little more paranoia than they are really worth. I have backed down on my parasite paranoia a little in realizing that it's a little too much worry. I realize now that there is a risk of parasite infestation every time my snake eats anything, from ANYwhere. The best I can do is feed the healthiest food items I can acquire, and know the signs and be on the lookout for changes in my snakes, and recieve proper treatment when necessary. That is a far more efective method of parasite control than speculating what *may or may not* be lurking in a food item.

One thing about parasites that kind of skeeves me is that 1 in every 3 americans is living without a clue that they are hosting some sort of gastrointestinal parasite. I shudder to think what may be living inside of me. Remember, parasites are built to live unnoticed and in harmony with their host, and only if the host falls sickly or ill, or if the parasite is purposely malicious to benefit it's own reproductive cycle, will the host sicken or die because of them. The usual cause of a parasite related death is that the parasite ends up in a host that it's not supposed to, and it does all the wrong things because it's in the wrong body.

[Stefan-A]

Can't say much about frogs, but every single wildcaught vertebrate I've ever dissected, has had plenty of intestinal parasites.

If the parasite risk/problem isn't convincing enough, how about the fact that amphibians aren't exactly doing great?

[aSnakeLovinBabe]

The question is, are the parasites found inside those WC vertebrates in fact spreadable to our snakes? That's not a poke in the ribs to Stefan that's just a serious question I have that I am having trouble finding answers to... worldwide, you are totally right, they're not doing well on a global basis. BUT, in my backyard, with all this rain I can't even take a walk outside without accidentally smooshing a baby toad or frog... so if I need to use a few to get a picky eater off the ground, I do! I don't use them as a steady diet though as there is really no reason to. Garters are easy to switch onto other already dead preys and I don't enjoy decimating wild populations of frogs for my convenience.

I forgot to say to the OP that overall, I would recommend switching to a more reliable, non- wild caught food source. By taking so many you are unknowingly taking the frogs that could have fed a hungry wild garter for a day. Even if there's an abundance, It's still one less frog that is removed from the population, and good hobbyists generally try to avoid doing that unless they have a snake that will starve without a frog to eat. Even then, we generally use frogs/salamanders and quickly switch over via scenting. I would only use them while it's absolutely necessary and then make the switch.