Pied Garters.. Has anyone seen this?

[d_virginiana]

Can we redirect the conversation? I don't see this going anywhere productive...

Just out of curiosity, is there anyone who is in the garter business who does *just* garters and that's their primary source of income? I know there are people who make enough off of them to have registered businesses, but I was always under the impression that if you wanted to really make money off of snakes you had to get into stuff like ball pythons or certain types of boas..

[infernalis]

There is no one that I can think of who makes a complete living from garter snakes.

Scott Felzer moves more babies a year than anyone else I know of, and he still has to go to work to survive.

[RedSidedSPR]

You may not have realized it, but Richard called Jeff a liar, and you agreed.

I didn't see it as him calling him a liar... maybe there's something I didn't pick up on. I saw a few things that made sense AND THAT I HAD NOTICED. So I agreed, then went on to say that he's mostly mistaken.

If you want to play follow the leader, you could do well to chose a different example to follow.

Follow the leader? C'mon. I don't know why people suddenly see me as a know it all who thinks he knows everything, and that I just agree with everything, but I don't.

If it really seems like that, I apologize to everyone, and will try to fix it.

EDIT: sorry Lora, yes. I'm done.

[annulataarethebest]

Can we redirect the conversation? I don't see this going anywhere productive...

Just out of curiosity, is there anyone who is in the garter business who does *just* garters and that's their primary source of income? I know there are people who make enough off of them to have registered businesses, but I was always under the impression that if you wanted to really make money off of snakes you had to get into stuff like ball pythons or certain types of boas..

Is there anybody else who works with only garter snakes? At least on a scale similar to Scott? Maybe Jeff B? I'm sure a lot of the Hognose snake guys are rolling in money this year since that's the new "hot" snake. I couldn't see it possible to make a living just off of garter snakes. That's why it's best to keep a couple different species.

[ConcinusMan]

I didn't see it as him calling him a liar... maybe there's something I didn't pick up on.

You see it like it is, like I stated it. Unlike those who like to jump on me about things I say, you read what I said, and didn't read into it to find something or some motivation or hidden message that isn't there and isn't intended. You read what I said, instead of reading what you thought I meant. Don't worry. It's just a sickness they have. You haven't caught it. Wayne and a bunch of others would be much better off if they followed your example. You didn't see me calling him a liar because I didn't. Nothing wrong with you.

If you want to play follow the leader, you could do well to chose a different example to follow.

I thought that was Chantel's job. She's always like "yeah, what he said"

Forget it RedSided, There's no way to defend yourself once they get like this and start on you. Just walk away. Even if you're right, you're wrong at this point. Let me show you how it backfires to defend your statements:

Wayne, first of all, I've only called one person on this forum a liar and that's because he lied to me, denied lying to me, and then proved he lied by statements made in a public post. It's not slander to call someone a liar if they are one. If he wasn't lying to me, he was lying in his post. Either way. Liar. I don't take such an accusation lightly or flat out call people a liar unless they prove to be one beyond a shadow of a doubt.

Secondly, I didn't once call Jeff a liar. I was just expressing doubt that his motivation was purely to "preserve the gene" and I'll tell you why I doubt:

#1 A business doesn't let go of valuable assets to that degree unless they are gambling on a future return. I refer to the high price he paid in valuable merchandise for the offspring of that pied snake.

#2 If the motivation was to preserve the gene, that had already been done, if it can be done at all, since that snake did have offspring already. If the offspring hadn't gone to him, they surely would have went to someone else (and some did) who had breeding them in mind. Again, gene already preserved as far as we know, if it is indeed genetic. So, with gene already "preserved" what motivation does that leave for paying the high price to have those offspring?

#3 He didn't put up a dime or give a damn about preserving the albino gene for northwesterns. Why? I suspect it's because he doesn't think there's a market for them, or he can't make any money or return on such an investment, so why the sudden change of heart? I was offered money to help acquire that snake from someone who didn't give a damn about a return. Like me, they just wanted to see that gene preserved for the hobby and didn't care if I was the one that ended up with the specimen.

Now, if I made a statement and had all that stacking up to create doubt as to the truthfullness of my statement, I would fully expect any of you to doubt it and/or call me out on it so I did the same.

Now, if you do defend yourself and make a valid point, that's right about the time people want you to shut up. Either that, or they can see you're right and want you to shut up before you get a chance to prove it. Quit while your behind sort of thing. Either way you're screwed.

Now watch RedSided. Watch how it backfires on me....

[kibakiba]

I don't really say "yeah, what he/she said". Maybe a few times when I was newer. Maybe when giving advice I might say, for example... "Like -name- said, blah blah blah." But I don't really follow the "leader". IMO no one is really "leader" qualified in my book. Perhaps you're thinking about someone else. Sorry to disappoint you. The only "leader" I follow is myself. I do have the highest respects for everyone who has helped me and has shared the wealth of knowledge that they have... But, of course, it seems more like you're being a troll towards me.

[Chondro788]

Well since no one else is saying it, here goes! I wanted some pie bald hets because they will be extremely popular, and in that sense profitable. I keep over 100 garters, and the time and money I spend needs to come back from time to time. I have invested thousands in the last year, and thousands of man hours. I do it because I enjoy it, but I'm not going to do it just to throw money away. If this makes me a greedy prick, so be it. There are plenty of hobbies that help pay for themselves, or even make a little money, and that's fine. Like Jeff said, money does make the world go round and we can't forget that. Where would our country be without capitalism?? The people that disgust me are the ones who collect thousands of wild caught animals just to make a buck, that seems unethical.
Anyways, this was meant to say what it is without sugar coating. Some may be offended, but it is what it is.

[kibakiba]

It doesn't make you a greedy prick to want to make money off of your hobby. I think everyone would love to make money off of a hobby that they do. There isn't anything wrong with it. I started soap and lotion making with just the intent on making things for myself and family, but found that there is a good amount of money to be made in selling the high quality products that I make. I don't think that makes me a greedy person in any sense. You have to pay for all the supplies used on garters and feeding, enclosures and vet care, along with paying for your own living expenses... So making money on the side with some pets that you breed isn't wrong. It does get expensive.

[d_virginiana]

I have to agree with both of you there. Wanting some amount of money return doesn't make you greedy, it just ensures that you can keep enjoying your hobby without totally emptying out your wallet.

The color of a snake has nothing to do with personality, so why did I pay nearly $200 a flame baby this summer? Because I want to breed it to my snake in the future, and it can produce flame babies in the first generation. Those babies will likely be pretty easy to sell to family, friends, and people online because they are a popular morph. It'd be difficult to even get rid of a litter of normal babies, and I hate the idea of selling snakes dirt cheap because they'd probably end up as feeders. I'm not doing that just to make money (clearly; her mate is going to be a Florida Blue), but I would like to at least break even on supplies so that I can continue my hobby.

[ConcinusMan]

I have to agree with both of you there. Wanting some amount of money return doesn't make you greedy

Agreed. If you want to make money, then I would say that trying to do it by breeding garters isn't a very good way to do it.