Wild tetrataenia

[ConcinusMan]

when you do find the article would you send it to me i would like to know more about this bike path

I will try but you know even if I don't find it, the link to the article I did provide says enough already. Now, if they're so damn worried about a few people "disturbing" them to take photos, then why are they even considering this project? Why they don't just build a damn freeway right on top of the den and get it over with.

Well I can't seem to find the damn story but I did find this. A similar project, though prime snake habitat, and the result wasn't good. Snakes continue to cross the path and get killed by bicycles or people who encounter them and kill them intentionally.

Field Herp Forum; View topic - Nylon Mesh Snake Death Trap

[sauceman]

Nice. Very nice.

[sschind]

Wow, I didn't mean for my comments to cause such a stir. Or maybe I did

Anyway, just a few details as I was told them about the massasauga pictures in my OP. The pictures were taken as the snakes were found basking, no flipping or other manipulation of the snakes had occurred. The pictures were taken on public land. There were no distinguishing landscape feature that would enable anyone to ID the are where they were found. The pictures were posted on a personal website (which is not active any more) with only the caption E. massasauga in Southern Wisconsin The discussion with the DNR agent was through PM and email. Specific threats of arrest were not made but insinuations that arrests could be made if the animals were disturbed in any way. The DNR agent knew exactly where the pictures were taken at from the photographers very limited description to him (public land in a particular county) The DNR agent admitted that the photographer had not broken any laws but kept saying things like "If you did..." and "People might..." The photos were left up for a couple of weeks then removed, I guess they didn't so much make him take them down as they convinced him that it wasn't worth it to keep them up.

I think this was a fishing expedition by this particular DNR agent who was hoping to uncover something big. When no "incriminating" evidence was forthcoming the subject was dropped. I've had offers from another friend to take me to the spot but we haven't been able to work out a date yet.

I also had a customer tell me they had a E. massasauga on their property that the DNR did not know about and she had no intention of telling them and I don't blame her. She showed me some pretty cool pictures and even some of babies. She said its on a back corner of the property and they usually give it a wide berth because of the snakes and only about a half a dozen close family members actually know they are there. They check it out a couple of time a year just to make sure the snakes are still there and they had seen babies in something like 4 of the past 6 years (it was about 4 years ago when I was told this and she has not been in since so I don't know the current status)

Anyway, the picture of the tetrataenia were beautiful. I would love to be able to see them in the wild (or as wild as any of their current habitat can be) I'm not sure if I would take pictures because my photography skills suck but just being able to say I've seen them would be a thrill. I do understand the laws and why they are there and the extent that officials can go to protect species but I think they go way too far sometimes. It does seem that with certain agencies, cough cough...the dnr... the concept of innocent until proven guilty is a completely foreign concept.

[ConcinusMan]

Wow, I didn't mean for my comments to cause such a stir. Or maybe I did

Anyway, just a few details as I was told them about the massasauga pictures in my OP. The pictures were taken as the snakes were found basking, no flipping or other manipulation of the snakes had occurred. The pictures were taken on public land. There were no distinguishing landscape feature that would enable anyone to ID the are where they were found. The pictures were posted on a personal website (which is not active any more) with only the caption E. massasauga in Southern Wisconsin The discussion with the DNR agent was through PM and email. Specific threats of arrest were not made but insinuations that arrests could be made if the animals were disturbed in any way. The DNR agent knew exactly where the pictures were taken at from the photographers very limited description to him (public land in a particular county) The DNR agent admitted that the photographer had not broken any laws but kept saying things like "If you did..." and "People might..." The photos were left up for a couple of weeks then removed, I guess they didn't so much make him take them down as they convinced him that it wasn't worth it to keep them up.

I think this was a fishing expedition by this particular DNR agent who was hoping to uncover something big. When no "incriminating" evidence was forthcoming the subject was dropped. I've had offers from another friend to take me to the spot but we haven't been able to work out a date yet.

I also had a customer tell me they had a E. massasauga on their property that the DNR did not know about and she had no intention of telling them and I don't blame her. She showed me some pretty cool pictures and even some of babies. She said its on a back corner of the property and they usually give it a wide berth because of the snakes and only about a half a dozen close family members actually know they are there. They check it out a couple of time a year just to make sure the snakes are still there and they had seen babies in something like 4 of the past 6 years (it was about 4 years ago when I was told this and she has not been in since so I don't know the current status)

Anyway, the picture of the tetrataenia were beautiful. I would love to be able to see them in the wild (or as wild as any of their current habitat can be) I'm not sure if I would take pictures because my photography skills suck but just being able to say I've seen them would be a thrill. I do understand the laws and why they are there and the extent that officials can go to protect species but I think they go way too far sometimes. It does seem that with certain agencies, cough cough...the dnr... the concept of innocent until proven guilty is a completely foreign concept.

People here are easily stirred, believe me. Especially about things they are passionate about. I've probably done far more unintentional stirring here, than intentional. You just sort of step in it.

I can tell you that photographing tetrataenia isn't easy. They are extremely flighty and will quickly disappear across water and into vegetation. Persuing them, or touching them in any way is definitely not legal. Your only option is in situ and they aren't usually very cooperative. But, that's what makes it worth the effort, and makes the photos that much more worth obtaining.

[ConcinusMan]

By the way guys, when I get to CA (pretty darn soon) there won't be any garters at all where I am. (the central valley's almond growing country) Plenty of neat lizards, rattlers, and some of the biggest gopher snakes you've ever laid eyes on. However, it's not far at all to the nearest stable population of Thamnophis gigas. It's the same spot where I saw them in the wild before. I will do my best to get permission from the farmers to go out and get some good photos of them to share. :-)

Also with just a little travel time, I can get to herp for some of California's best garter species. They're not far, they're just not in the valley (with the exception of gigas) where I'll be. Check out the weather there. I can live with that. it's a dry heat.

[BUSHSNAKE]

Im packing my bags Richard...just give me directions, we're going herping

[RedSidedSPR]

Do you plan on keeping any of them? Or just herp?

[ConcinusMan]

I'll have to get a fishing license and then there will be a daily bag limit but of course I probably will keep some (no gigas or SF garters obviously) and use some to trade and rebuild my collection. I won't be far at all from the bay area and surrounding counties and you know there's awesome garters there.

I most definitely will have to go out (this works within blocks of where I'm living) after sundown on a hot day and go road cruising to get myself the biggest, meanest gopher snake I can find. I swear to God, there's 7-8 footers out there on the roads at night. They're monsters.

Herping season is actually very, very long there. You can find snakes in December.

[RedSidedSPR]

Are gigas protected?

7-8 feet? Awesome!!!

[ConcinusMan]

Gigas is critically endangered so yes, but stable thanks to cooperation from farmers in the valley. Most of the area is almond orchards, other farmland, and rice farms as far as the eye can see. Historically it was all wetland habitat for gigas.