Its oh so quiet Shh Shh

[ConcinusMan]

For some reason it just never ocurred to me that it could be elegans because of the location. I really don't have a good resource for range maps. Is there a good one online somewhere?

I know elegans is here in WA and I'm pretty sure I used to find them here but I just never do anymore. At least not in my county. I don't think I've ever seen one that had the lateral stripes a different color than the dorsal either. Every one I have found in the past in western oregon was always been a handsome black and yellow 3 stripe snake.

[jitami]

Elegans was my first thought when I saw the pic, too, but I'm wondering if there are ribbons in WA? Did some searching... this is the only page I found that diferentiates between T. e. elegans & T. e. vagrans and it does seem e. elegans are found in Washington: http://www.natureserve.org/explorer/...viewMiddle.wmt (link didn't work... search for Thamnophis... or here's the copy & pasted version:

2.102240

Thamnophis elegans
Terrestrial Gartersnake

G5

CAN: AB, BC, SK USA: AZ, CA, CO, ID, MT, NE, NM, NN, NV, OK, OR, SD, UT, WA, WY

2.102647

Thamnophis elegans vagrans
Wandering Gartersnake

G5T5

CAN: SK USA: AZ, NN, OK, WY

I'm still totally convinced, because it also places them in Idaho, Utah, Montana, and South Dakota? That's a huge range for my fave garter, but still doesn't seem right. Oregon and Washington I'll buy, but Nebraska???

[Stefan-A]

No ribbons in Washington.

[drache]

I really don't have a good resource for range maps. Is there a good one online somewhere?

this is the one I use - not sure how current it is
http://www.gartersnake.de/snakefinder/snakefinder.html

[ssssnakeluvr]

it's an ordinoides...have seen photos of them with stripes like that.

[ConcinusMan]

this is the one I use - not sure how current it is
http://www.gartersnake.de/snakefinder/snakefinder.html

Thanks, that's better than nothing. Concinnus in the LA area? I dont think so. The extent of their southernmost range barely, if at all, makes it into northern CA. Northwest herpetologists would argue, and have been arguing for years, that true concinnus is only in NW oregon and SW WA only as far north as longview, wa and as far south as eugene, OR.

Perhaps this is a case of CA red-sides or other sirtalis being mistaken for concinnus. Still, better map than nothing. It does show elegans as being in my area but I haven't found one since the early 80's unless I go south into oregon. Same goes for ringneck snakes too. They're all gone from clark county, wa as far as we know. Thanks for the link. very helpful.

And yes Don, I think it's a northwestern too. But a really awesome one!

[ssssnakeluvr]

very awesome!!! would like to get my hands on some!!!

[Stefan-A]

Whatever their range was when the map was made, it's smaller now.

[ConcinusMan]

No doubt. Another thing that range maps do not show is suitable habitat. Obviously if there's none, you're not going to find them, even inside their range. The So. CA border for example, is part of elegans range. you won't find them there. There's no suitable habitat left. Concinnus are a bit lucky where this is concerned. Plenty of their habitat does not get developed and never will, so they can be found even in heavily urbanized areas, in pockets of suitable habitat. Where I found the latest wild concinnus, it is highly urbanized all around but the land where they were found is not suitable for development. Often, this includes creeks and waterways, providing corridors of suitable habitat connecting various populations.

[jitami]

I'm still NOT totally convinced, because it also places them in Idaho, Utah, Montana, and South Dakota? That's a huge range for my fave garter, but still doesn't seem right. Oregon and Washington I'll buy, but Nebraska???

Funny how missing one tiny word changes the meaning of an entire sentence... sigh...