shoot...

[lestat]

I agree with some of the coments. You have to be more carefull in the future about keeping males and females together of different speices but things happen and keeping 2 snakes together is better for both of them. As for freezing or feeding that is down to the indiviual. I couldnt bring my self to do it. Good luck with them and as i have said on another thread it's not the babies fault for what they are. Snakes need our love and attention if kept in captivity.

[Stefan-A]

keeping 2 snakes together is better for both of them.

Is it?

[aSnakeLovinBabe]

for thamnophis, I would say yes. They seem to actually seek one another out. For 99% of other snake species, no. Solitary life is best, except for breeding.

[Stefan-A]

You'd need to know the reason why they do it to be able to claim that it's better for them. Or at the very least there should be some indicator that they benefit from it.

[Steven@HumboldtHerps]

I have to agree with Stefan-A on this controversy. I just tapped into and followed through with this thread, and I have to say the enthusiasm expressed by those willing to adopt the intergrades, though admirable, sends shudders through my spine. I am not trying to be depressing, nor insulting, but somewhere along the way, there will always be an individual who can not be trusted, a pet owner who drops the ball. For the captive breeding populations, a few intergrades accidentally let loose into the breeding arena will certainly cause genetic muddling. Should the intergrade get loose (esp. sirtalis with its races spanning North America!), its influence will contaminate the local gene pool and may completely skew its integrity. As a wildlife biology major studying local population lineages, I would be pretty ticked off if I actually engaged in mitochondrial DNA analysis, only to find out that some pet owner/breeder let some un-natural mutts loose. There goes my thesis! And then no one gets to learn how all the Thamnophis species are connected (via an ancestral common ancestor), because it's all messed up.

I am positive that hybrids and of course intergrades occur naturally in the wild. The key word is "natural", as in such crosses are a result of overlapping ranges. It is especially important to understand that the different characteristics of the different species and subspecies are often indicative of the type of environment to which they have adapted. Changing the pattern and colors (and yes, behavior too - possibly too subtle for us to notice) can affect local population survival rates as well.

I love frogs. Huh? But our local herp society is planning massive frogicide for the American Bullfrog. Why kill? This invasive species from the East is wiping out our local baby garters, baby western pond turtles, and our smaller frog species! Greater good!

Please don't let our human emotions (so often expressed in an anthropomorphized manner to our pets) interfere what is right for the bigger picture. Professional environmentalists are constantly making devastating mistakes with their good intentions... So what kind of common sense does the average pet owner have?

Sorry; it's late; I'm rambling again. I hope you make the right decision.

Steven Krause

[adamanteus]

Yeah, everything Steven just said. As I said right back at the beginning of this thread..... 'better to freeze or feed'.

[SpyrotheGartersnake]

i could provide a home for two of them luckly i have a 38 gallon tank left after spyro died..... but besides that my knigsnake doesn't like eating snakes i tried giving a brown snake that was close to dieing but he refused to eat it. so no worries and i won't breed them because i know how to stop them from breeding instead of hibernating them try to keep them awake by keeping the tempature around 78 or 75 degrees works for mine if i don't want to breed them

[Stefan-A]

i won't breed them because i know how to stop them from breeding instead of hibernating them try to keep them awake by keeping the tempature around 78 or 75 degrees works for mine if i don't want to breed them

No, you can't stop garters from breeding by keeping them at normal temperatures.

[adamanteus]

Many times I've had Garters breed without hibernating them. Sometimes more than once in a year!

[drache]

no worries and i won't breed them because i know how to stop them from breeding instead of hibernating them try to keep them awake by keeping the tempature around 78 or 75 degrees works for mine if i don't want to breed them

that belief will make you the pet owner who dropped the ball and went on to perpetuate the problem
clearly - snakes who are not meant to breed should never be housed with snakes of the other sex - period