Post pics of your anery red sideds?

[aSnakeLovinBabe]

I definitely agree with having respect for whoever named the morph, but if you name a morph after a scientific term such as anerythristic, it does kinda open yourself up to scrutiny from everyone because it's not an original name. It's a word borrowed from the textbooks. Not so much in our little garter corner, but in other hobbies, like the milk snakes and python hobbies, people get really serious about it when you use terms like that. You can name your morph hypo, because it's your new morph to name, but then a bunch of guys gang up on you and yell at you because they think you are wrong and that it's T+ albino. Regardless, I see both sides of the argument and I understand that Scott does not wish to debate it because he named the morph anery and that's that. But I can also see why people ask questions, and there is nothing wrong with not blindly accepting what you are told at face value. That is why we all have opinions. And remember, the names we give these morphs, that is all they are is a personal opinion from someone who took their best educated guess. There's just no way anyone can claim to be totally right as we have NO data to prove the pigments we say are affected are being affected the way we say they are. Heck, do we even know exactly what types of pigments garters have? It is certainly more extensive than other types of snakes as Jeff has pointed out.

It is good to question things and to test our fellow hobbyist, even if it means testing their patience at times. Debating is healthy as long as people can remain mature about it. Nobody is going to agree on everything 100% of the time, and if we all did, this hobby would be no fun. As we learn more, things will change, and that is inevitable.

I can say one thing, if I did close my eyes and envision my own personal version of an "anery" red sided, it would look a lot like The Golden Redsided. in fact, that's exactly what I feel it would look like.

Scott Felzer's Garter Snakes, specializing in aberrant garters

In my opinion, there would not be a better descriptive term for that animal than anery.

[BUSHSNAKE]

Jeff we have had this conversation a million times and you know my point of view on this subject and you know its not gonna change so this was for the people who havent heard it yet and the points i made are facts i wasnt attacking ANYONE and if i offended someone with my red white and blue opinion i appalogize but i hope i got some wheels turning out there.

[aSnakeLovinBabe]

There is no reason anyone should be offended...

[Scott F]

Jaff makes some very salient points regarding the snows. The red sided and plains snows were both created by breeding anerys to albinos and breeding the resulting double hets back to one another. Is anyone questioning that these are not snows ? By the creation of the snows, this unequivocably proves out the genetics of the parents (ie true anerythristics). Hard to justify arguing this point but whoever wants to, is welcome to.

I've touched on this a while back but as far as naming snakes, the breeder has the luxury of creating names for new morphs that he/she produces. This is one of the cool things about our hobby that makes it fun !!

Scott

[BUSHSNAKE]

The points have already been made, would you like to tell me what i said thats untrue?

[BUSHSNAKE]

you and jeff love gaining up on me...no problem bring it Scott and Jeff

[aSnakeLovinBabe]

Jaff makes some very salient points regarding the snows. The red sided and plains snows were both created by breeding anerys to albinos and breeding the resulting double hets back to one another. Is anyone questioning that these are not snows ? By the creation of the snows, this unequivocably proves out the genetics of the parents (ie true anerythristics). Hard to justify arguing this point but whoever wants to, is welcome to.

I've touched on this a while back but as far as naming snakes, the breeder has the luxury of creating names for new morphs that he/she produces. This is one of the cool things about our hobby that makes it fun !!

Scott

I don't think that anyone is questioning the validity of them being snows, especially since even though classically the term for a snow means albino/anerythristic, we are finding that mixing other morphs with albino produces the same "snow" effect. Like if you breed a melanistic eastern to a strain Of t negative albino, you are going to get a very "snowy looking" snake. Even if these redsided/plains were called melanistics in the first place, I am sure the resulting albino crosses would have still been referred to as snows. Getting a "snowy looking" baby doesn't prove that they are anerythristics, (not arguing, just saying it isn't proof) it just proves that the mutation removes much of the pigment. But the same affect could be achieved with the easterns which are DEFINITELY melanistic.

[Scott F]

Hey Shannon,

The goldens's trait has not been replicated in several breedings (breeding F1's to F1's and the golden male to F1 female offspring). This doesn't disprove that it is not some form of anerythristic, but makes the chances it is remote at best. This snake is for sale now but if he doesn't sell, I will breed him to the albino next year to prove (or disprove) this theory. It could actually make for an interesting project, sometimes breeding one morph to a different one(s) can produce different results too. I will breed him too this Iowa albino red sided if this albino's het male is not breeder size by next Spring.

Scott

[BUSHSNAKE]

Shannon didnt say it was an anery only thats how one would look BY DEFFINITION, its hard to compare redsides, plains, and easterns because in their natural form they dont look the same so why should the morphs look the same...

[BUSHSNAKE]

but if you want to compare morphs i think the nebraska snow is very SIMILAR to the eastern snow....and thats a fact