wild garters cross breeding in the wild.

[tspuckler]

Without the DNA testing to prove it, you simply have an intergrade. It doesn't mean you have a hybrid.

I never said it was a hybrid. I called it a three-way cross. You can read more about wild atratus crosses in the wild at:
Thamnophis atratus intergrades

Do you have proof that it's a three way cross? How would you truly know unless you got all of its genetics and such tested?

Did you have genetic testing done on your 2.2.3 Thamnophis ordinoides? If not, how can you truly know that's what they are?

[Stefan-A]

Crosses are hybrids and hybrids are crosses. We're not talking about dog breeds here.

[kibakiba]

I know for a fact they aren't intergrades. That's for sure. I'm not claiming that they're hybrids or intergrades like you are. The only snakes in my area are ordinoides. I found one wandering, once in the past 17 years I've lived here.

[tspuckler]

Crosses are hybrids and hybrids are crosses. We're not talking about dog breeds here.

Never mentioned dogs. Where I come from someone could cross a Miami locality corn snake with a Kentucky locality corn snake. It would be called a cross. Someone could cross a kingsnake with a corn snake and that would be called a cross. It's common "lingo" in the USA. I would call the king X corn a hybrid. But it still would also be called a cross.

Around here when two different species interbreed it's called a hybrid. When two subspecies interbreed in nature it's called an intergrade. They are collectively referred to as "crosses."

I know for a fact they aren't intergrades.

No you don't. There are many "pure" looking snakes that are in fact hybrids. You do not truly know what your snakes are.

I'm not claiming that they're hybrids or intergrades like you are

I never claimed that your snakes are intergrades or hybrids.

I found one wandering, once in the past 17 years I've lived here.

That dosen't mean anything. If a cross occurred 60 years ago and the offspring bred into "pure" forms, then every generation thereafter would be a cross. You don't know what you have without DNA testing.

[kibakiba]

Niether do you, so why are you arguing that that snake is a 'cross'?

[tspuckler]

Niether do you, so why are you arguing that that snake is a 'cross'?

That snake was tested at the California Academy of Science - so that's why. It's not an arguement - it's a simple statement of fact.

[kibakiba]

Show us the proof then. That's the only way anyone will believe you. Why didn't you just add the 'test's done with the picture. You need proof before you go flapping your gums like some sort of snake genius.

[tspuckler]

Show us the proof then. That's the only way anyone will believe you. Why didn't you just add the 'test's done with the picture. You need proof before you go flapping your gums like some sort of snake genius.

You're the one "flapping your gums." So people "do science." You obviously don't. Even if I showed you "proof" you'd still argue about it endlessly and make false accusations about me like you did in your previous posts. You obviously lack the intelligence to have a meaningful conversation about this and admit that you're wrong. Good luck with that!

You don't need to be a "snake genius" to determine a naturally occurring intergrade. There's plenty of snakes like the "Greenish Rat Snake" (a cross between a yellow rat and a black rat) that are easy to look at and see that they have the characteristics of two different subspecies.

Oh, and there's plenty of people who believe me. I couldn't care less if you do.

Take a chill pill and relax.

[kibakiba]

Lol, cool story bro.

[guidofatherof5]

Do not let this get out of hand. PM your dispute between each other if necessary. Please.