Found a garter in need of help?

[gregmonsta]

You did really well saving them and doing the best you can. Like Steve said, if she is managing to process food and shed (even with your assistance) there is no reason why she couldn't have a good captive life with you.

[ConcinusMan]

I as well. I lost my mother, she was 45, just after I turned 14 to smoking. I lost my dad at age 67, just after I turned 30. Back then, they did not realize the danger they put themselves in as well as those around them. My Mom was alive for 2 months after she was diagnosed with cancer. One of the first things she made my sisters and I promise is that we would never start smoking. That is a promise I have always kept.

Sorry to hear that Le Ann. It's easy to blame the smoking and yes, that is definitely a risk factor, and it's a good choice to not smoke, but you just can't always figure these things. My father is one of 5 siblings. All but one have smoked most of their lives. Only one never smoked or drank. The second to the youngest of them. He died first in his 40's. Cancer that started in his throat and progressed to his liver.

The rest, including my father are still alive and still smoking.(The oldest is in his 80's)

Didn't mean to change the subject but I had to say something.

[The Snake Whisperer]

I agree that canned salmon & processed foods aren't exactly the healthiest choices for feeding the snakes. From the end of July on until mid to late November, there was such a serious drought locally that it was impossible to dig earthworms anywhere in the woods behind my house. The creek was the lowest I ever saw it before, it was so low there were only a few small nasty smelly puddles of water full of dead rotting leaves. I did learn though, when looking for damp spots elsewhere in the creek, that crayfish survive droughts by burying themselves deep in the creek bottom mud.

This drought was what forced me to seek other foods for the garters. Buying nightcrawlers wasn't an option for the majority of the garters, most of them weren't large enough to handle a full sized nightcrawler. Under normal conditions, I usually am able to easily dig plenty of smaller sized earthworms in the woods for the snakes.

The biggest problem with canned salmon I've had is that a few baby snakes stuffed themselves so much with pieces of food that they died, upon opening them up to see what I could find as to cause of death, they had eaten so much the food was packed all the way up to their mouths. Since then I've been feeding the babies the ground up type of canned cat food versus any kind of chunky food, because the ground up food has no large pieces in it.

I have tried washing the canned salmon & soaking it in water & rinsing it a few times in an effort to wash salt out of it, the problem with this is the difficulty of keeping the salmon intact in pieces large enough for the bigger snakes to be interested in eating them.

What kinds of fish can you buy frozen that garters will accept? I'm assuming I would thaw the fish and cut it into long thin strips to simulate the size of earthworms appropriate to the size of the snake I'm feeding. How long is thawed frozen fish safe for the snakes to eat? Should I put reptile calcium powder or any other vitamin powder on f/t fish before feeding it to the snakes?

What other meats, if any, can I buy frozen that garters will accept?

I started a worm bed in a deep opaque container too, & hopefully I can get the worms to produce well enough in time to be able to supply myself with garter food.

When spring comes, I plan to release a number of these snakes back to the wild. I couldn't release nearly as many as I wanted to before winter came, due to the severe drought & severe lack of food available in the wild.

[kibakiba]

You could cut the night crawlers, thats what I do and they take them just like the would another whole worm. Tilapia is good for feeding, but don't buy packaged tilapia, get it fresh and freeze it. Honestly, I'd say cut it out with the cat food and canned food, just buy some large night crawlers from the store and cut them up. It's so much more healthy for the snake and they wont stuff themselves if you feed them with hemostats or tweezers.

[guidofatherof5]

Even very large worms can be cut into small chunks.
Fresh Salmon, Trout and Tipalia will work. This also can be cut into small chunks so that the smaller snakes can enjoy.
Moving away from any processed food is a good move for your snakes.

[ConcinusMan]

What Steve said^^^

[The Snake Whisperer]

I've found out that my Easterns will eat canned salmon flavor & canned ocean whitefish/tuna combo flavor canned cat food. I also consistently group feed them when feeding canned cat food & I've found there is a definite pack style organization among snakes that are caged together. There is one snake in each group who consistently is first to eat and in each group I've noted the dominant snake consistently using a dominant stare behavior to tell the other snakes to back off and wait, this dominant stare is similar to that which alpha wolves use. The dominant snake will take a mouthful of food and carry it away to eat it & after that the others move in, each also taking a mouthful & carrying it away from the dish to eat it.

Let me make it clear that while I regularly group feed the garters when feeding cat food, I would never group feed them when feeding earthworms. When I feed earthworms, each snake is fed individually.

I've also noted that in comparison to their behavior when fed cat food, when the snakes are fed earthworms the movement of the worms excites them. I've also found the best way to get garters to accept pinkie mice or in the case of the bigger garters, pinky rats, is to first make sure to introduce pinkies when the snake is really hungry and less picky!! , scent live pinkies by rubbing earthworms on the pinkies. In a couple of cases I've wrapped an earthworm around a pinky & then offered the pinky to the snake to get the snake started eating the pinky. Otherwise, the scent of earthworm combined with the movement of the live pinky should motivate a hungry garter to eat the pinky.

In my experience, it's taken several times of feeding scented live pinkies before the snakes would accept unscented live pinkies. Later on when I didn't have live pinkies available, I found these snakes would accept frozen thawed pinkies, a couple of those big enough to handle fuzzies will eat fuzzies too.

Garters in comparison to other species I have & observe, don't like to eat anything that's much wider than their own heads, with the exception of toads! The garter snakes don't seem to be able to open their mouths as wide as constrictor species such as cornsnakes are capable of doing. Baby garters also get intimidated if an earthworm is too long & I've noted consistently that when in the presence of a baby garter, small earthworms try to stretch themselves out as long as possible to intimidate the baby snake! Cutting the worm into two or more pieces quickly solves that problem.

I've never had any luck getting any garters to eat fish & fish have coexisted with the garters in the garters swimming pools/water dishes up to several months before dying of natural causes! The snakes totally ignore the fish.

Another interesting behavior I've noted is that when a mother garter has given birth, when I go to feed her earthworms she is very careful to go over the worm thoroughly before eating it to make sure it's not a baby snake. I've never had an adult garter make any attempt to eat baby garters.

My observations of garters indicates this species is social and prefers the company of other garters. Even in the wild the garters I observe are rarely alone, there are usually at least two snakes together. A number of times I've seen three or four adult garters lined up alongside small runoff streams of water after a hard rain, reminding me of fishermen lined up together on a bridge.

What have others of you who keep multiple garters together observed in your garters, as to evidence of social behaviors & organized social structure with one individual clearly being dominant over the others?

What have others of you observed as to cleanliness instinct in your garters? I've noted mine consistently keep their den box clean and defecate away from the den box, even babies consistently keep their den clean and accidents are very rare. I've got a few adults who when put into a separate feeding container when fed earthworms, consistently relieve themselves in the feeding container after eating, as if they know if they relieve themselves there they won't have the mess in their cage. In contrast, I've not observed these individuals relieving themselves immediately after being group fed cat food in their regular cage.

The more I open-mindedly observe the garters, the more they teach me that they are intelligent, curious, have definite personalities, are social & have a definite social structure when living together in a group & also have definite cleanliness instincts. My conclusion so far is that snakes are perhaps the least understood & most underestimated creatures on the planet!

[guidofatherof5]

Nice to see you back on the forum.

Hmmm, interesting observations.
Cat food has been an issue brought up many times on the forum.
Seemed the consensus was it isn't a food which should be fed to garter snakes.
Cat food or processed canned meat is full of preservatives, additives and high in sodium and are designed and developed with mammals in mind.
Garter snakes will eat many things that are very bad for them.
I could fool my snakes into eating just about anything by scenting it with worm slime.
I would strongly suggest not feeding any canned, processed foods.

[drache]

interesting observations . . .

I'd stay away from the cat food, for the reasons Steve brought up - too many chemicals
I have a garter that once tried to eat a shoe, probably because it got walked over some junk food - just because they will eat it, doesn't mean it's acceptable

I wonder about some of your other observations
you must have special garters, because mine poop all over their cage

more later . . .

[ConcinusMan]

I've found out that my Easterns will eat canned salmon flavor & canned ocean whitefish/tuna combo flavor canned cat food.

Then why not use that to scent something more appropriate for snakes.

Another interesting behavior I've noted is that when a mother garter has given birth, when I go to feed her earthworms she is very careful to go over the worm thoroughly before eating it to make sure it's not a baby snake.

I doubt is has anything to do with the babies. Don't jump to conclusions. Garters will often do this behavior regardless. As to the "why" part, one can only speculate. To say it's because they just had babies is quite a stretch. The fact that the snake was checking out the worm at all tells me the snake already knew it wasn't a baby garter or it wouldn't have been interested in the first place.

I've never had an adult garter make any attempt to eat baby garters.

And you probably never will. However, try scenting your baby snakes with their favorite food and watch what happens. (not recommended) I've never had a garter attempt to eat a rock either because rocks aren't on the menu. However, if it smells like food, they will try. Accidents do occur. This is why we do not usually feed groups together.

Let me make it clear that while I regularly group feed the garters when feeding cat food, I would never group feed them when feeding earthworms. When I feed earthworms, each snake is fed individually.

The issues that can happen when feeding snakes in groups, happen regardless of what is on the menu.

As for the babies dying after feeding them canned salmon, I would be quite surprised if they didn't die after eating all that salt. Salmon is not canned without levels of salt high enough to kill a baby garter in one meal.

Cat food is not garter snake food. I would highly recommend that you stop feeding it to them. Also, watch the ingredients of what you do feed them. Any salt is very bad for them and could be deadly.