Scaleless garter

[infernalis]

Thanks ladies.

I was going to say to Richard that mad scientists are certainly not performing genetic experiments to remove scales from any snake.

Selective breeding must begin with at least one specimen that occurred naturally.

So the only other alternative is a naturally occurring mutation.

[Jeff B]

Yep, mutations are just random occurring events, (it's just a numbers game, millions of replication events and sooner or later a mistake will happen) and if that mistake ends up in one of the parental gamates and it's in a gene that effects the phenotype (look) of the snake in some dramatic way, then "wahla" we have a new morph.

This is the natural process which occurs in the wild and is how the vast majority of the base morph mutations come into the hobby (periodically morph mutations will pop out in captivity).

Now that is completely different, than the process that we (the breeders) use to create DESIGNER morphs or combination morphs, were by we are basically exploiting and combining multiple mutations or traits to achieve a new and argueably improved phenotype (look) to a snake and then we give them a cool, fancy names to "improve" marketability (I personally am not a fan of most fancy designer phenotype names, I would prefer to stick with genotype nomenclature, but thats not what "sells").

[infernalis]

Awe come on, I like my "Jeff snows"

[aSnakeLovinBabe]

haha.... I like to call the easterns "Dirty Snows"

[ConcinusMan]

OK well obviously the information about scaleless snakes that I read was totally erroneous.

If it can suddenly exist in captivity it can exist in nature. It's not like we created the ability for the scaleless gene to appear.

Key word being "can". And actually, if some trait comes from some combinations of multiple mutations or recessive genes, then quite frankly it's NOT going to happen in nature. "Can" and "Does" are not the same.

[infernalis]

OK well obviously the information about scaleless snakes that I read was totally erroneous.

can you post a link? please don't say it's a wiki.

[ConcinusMan]

Now that you ask, it wasn't actually what I read, as it was what was said in a video by someone who has produced them. I still do not believe that you can breed scaleless snakes like you would albinos. It's not that simple. You don't see dozens of scaleless snakes being produced every year because it can't be done. That's why they're so expensive.

Well forget everything I said. I'm checking now and finding nothing but conflicting information. One person says it's not just a simple recessive trait, and another says it is.

[infernalis]

gotta love the interwebz

[Danny]

Is there any way to buy one of these?

[Jeff B]

Now that you ask, it wasn't actually what I read, as it was what was said in a video by someone who has produced them. I still do not believe that you can breed scaleless snakes like you would albinos. It's not that simple. You don't see dozens of scaleless snakes being produced every year because it can't be done. That's why they're so expensive.

Well forget everything I said. I'm checking now and finding nothing but conflicting information. One person says it's not just a simple recessive trait, and another says it is.

Richard it is that simple, I believe it's actually been proven to be a simple recessive gene in the corn snake, and other rat snakes, pretty sure BHB has a group that they are working with, among a few other breeders, but there are reasons you see dozens available every year. Not having scales makes for a frail snake, not easy to grow or breed, plus the fact that they aren't going to just be unleashed to the public without lots of stock animals built up and crossed with other genes to make combos, otherwise you could potientially crash your own market, plus having a hefty price tag limits the numbers sold and no need to advertise when the demand is that high. These are similar reasons that you don't see dozens of Silver eastern garter snakes available every year, nor will you likely anytime soon in the future.