I have fed my Garter/Ribbon Goldfish for 13 years. Is Thiaminase a problem?

[mustang]

b1 wont hurt

[aSnakeLovinBabe]

but it probably won't help if there's already thiaminase present

[mustang]

the vet said it wont hurt and iv been feeding mine live fish from petco...itsx too small for pinky parts

[tspuckler]

I think what Shannon is saying is that the enzyme thiaminase effectively destroys vitamin B1. So you can add B1, but it's pretty much a waste of time to do so if the fish you are feeding the snake contains thaiminase.

I'm not sure if it's been mentioned yet, but thiaminase can be denatured by heating the fish to 80 degrees C in water for 5 minutes.

Tim

[mustang]

whats that in Farnhitte

[drache]

about 176 Fahrenheit

[DrKate]

I think what Shannon is saying is that the enzyme thiaminase effectively destroys vitamin B1. So you can add B1, but it's pretty much a waste of time to do so if the fish you are feeding the snake contains thaiminase.

This is true only to a point. Injecting (frozen/thawed) sub-par feeder fish with liquid multi-B-vitamin before feeding is actually a common thing to do in zoos and other aquaculture situations, according to a vet acquaintance of mine. (Remember, the thiaminase issue affects all piscivorous species including marine mammals, birds, and other fish, not just our snakes.)

You gotta think back to high school biology. A single enzyme molecule can only work so fast. So you can effectively overwhelm all the thiaminase in a fish by flooding the fish with more B1 than the thiaminase can destroy between the time of the injection and when the enzyme itself is broken down in the gut of the predator. If you put in enough, right before feeding, then there's plenty left for the predator to absorb.

The trick is knowing how much is enough. If you add too little, the fish will still be deficient in thiamine (though less so than without the supplement). If you add too much, the B vitamins can themselves be dangerous. Ideally, I'd suggest that anyone who's interested in taking this route should consult an exotics vet who's interested in nutrition, to establish a safe level of B-vitamin supplement. It's probably easier for most folks to just avoid the thiaminase-containing fish, though.

[drache]

from what I understand this only works with thiamine deficient fish (pretty much anything frozen), but not when feeding a prey item that has thiaminase, because the thiaminase doesn't so much destroy the thiamine, as that it blocks it's absorption, and when the absorption is blocked, it doesn't matter how much extra you throw at it

[mustang]

A)parents dont want fish in microwave
B) i got a checkered garter it aiint exotic and i got a good vet

[adamanteus]

The solution is simplicity itself... use trout or salmon, both safe, both readily available from supermarkets, both affordable and both 'socially acceptable' in the average fridge! Why complicate matters with difficult or 'problem' fish?