Feeding Frogs?

[Stefan-A]

Interesting discussion, I hope it stays that way.

My point in suggesting a local biologist as a resource is that they would be able to say whether the population in question is, in fact, healthy enough to tolerate the amount of collecting the person anticipates doing.

Just to continue on that note, my biggest concern is going to be the overall situation, until the IUCN gets around to doing a Red List of North American amphibians.

[Stefan-A]

Frogs, like everything else, produce more offspring than can ever possibly survive to reproduce.

I'm very much familiar with the strategy, thank you.

As a matter of fact, the vast majority of those individuals that you see hopping around, will probably die from predation, many of them from, well the very snakes you are feeding them to (this holds in the US, and in finland with Natrix natix if you have them there)

Yes, that's something I am considering here. In fact, it's something I'm sort of counting on.

Taking a few metamorphs from these populations wont harm a damn thing provided the population is healthy. If they are green frogs (Lithobates clamitans) I can guarantee the population is healthy, they are not in decline.

Only a few from a healthy population, I'm not going to argue with that. But why make the assumption that the population is healthy and that only a few are being harvested?

[celticguitar]

I have to admit this was a great discussion with everybody remaning civil with each which is not always the case on alot of forums. This type of discussion will always give us pause to consider the impact of our hobby on nauture and to do what we can to educate and make others responsible for what they do. Enjoy! Good luck with your graduate work!
a little segue My oldest brother has his Phd in biology specializing in mosses and lichens. I use to go with him when he was collecting specimens for his doctorate work and setting up humidity temp. monitors that enabled him to build a tank to grow his moss that were the subject of his thesis. This particular moss was only thought to grow in Germany at the time and he discovered it growing in a bird sanctury here in Rhode Island. I learned alot about ecosystems and how variences affect them. I was 8 or 9 or so at the time and he even taught me the latin names of the mosses and lichens (none of which I remember now). He also taught me about forgs turtles and such some of which I remember. He is the source of some of my info. Thanks again for being a friendly bunch
Dwight

[Stefan-A]

I have to admit this was a great discussion with everybody remaning civil with each which is not always the case on alot of forums.

I want to emphasize this part especially. This is a forum where we're sort of used to discussions staying civil, even when we strongly disagree with each other or when we get frustrated with others.

[adamanteus]

Absolutely! That's one of the things I enjoy so much about this forum... You can open a topic which you know is going to cause heated debate, but without the fear that the discussion will deteriorate into abuse and name calling.

[gregmonsta]

There's no place like home .... the funny thing is .... when you post something sensible on a full on posting war on another forum it gets completely ignored.

This forum is full of good humour and community spirit and I'm proud to be a member.

[DrKate]

This forum is full of good humour and community spirit and I'm proud to be a member.

YAY Team Thamnophis!! (Only partially sarcastic, I promise! I too am impressed with the community feel.)

Hey Ibkukin, are you still following the thread, or have we gotten way too off track? Notwithstanding Stefan's point about the overall sad state of amphibian populations worldwide, I think knowing your location and what kind of frogs you've got would be necessary for anyone to really tell you if your local frogs are OK to feed your snakes both from a nutritional point of view (e.g. frogs and not toads, and not known to be toxic or anything) AND from an ecological point of view (healthy numbers in your area). If you don't know the kind of frog/toad, you could post a pic and your location and probably someone could make a pretty good guess.

[Zephyr]

Personally I don't see any problems with taking a few frogs/toads. I'm sure a wholesale collector could do a lot worse than a hobbyist.
And, if you're really paranoid about taking stuff, go for tadpoles; if they're as abundant in your area as they are here, I'm sure it won't hurt the ecosystem significantly.
**Also, on the parasite side of the issue; If you found the frogs/tadpoles out and about, chances are they don't have "lethal" parasites. A sick frog, toad, or tadpole in the wild has a notable appearance; dead.

[celticguitar]

YAY Team Thamnophis!! (Only partially sar If you don't know the kind of frog/toad, you could post a pic and your location and probably someone could make a pretty good guess.

I think we lost Ibukin in the discusion. I agree with your above statement the species of frog would be important to know and the number available to collect from.
segue my little guys are still doing great on worms! They are cheap and easily obtaianed and easy to use
Dwight

[GradStudentLeper]

But why make the assumption that the population is healthy and that only a few are being harvested?

This requires a person being intelligent and familiar with local conservation issues. I would not for example recommend collecting mountain yellow legged frogs to feed to your pet T. atratus.

Amphibian declines are caused by three things

1) Chitrid Fungus. Many north american species are resistant to this, either because the climate is not suitable for the fungus, or because the anti-fungal compounds in the frog's skin confer protection.

2)Invasive predators/competitors. Bullfrogs feed on and replace native frogs when introduced...

3) Habitat destruction. Need I say more?

Most of the species a person will encounter in their yard though are resistant to the later, because their habitat requirements are very broad. For example: Southern Leopard Frogs can be found anywhere from swamps to residential drainage canals. So long as there is water and vegetation, these frogs do fine and reproduce in large numbers.

One just needs to pay attention, and learn about the prey animals they catch.