Scale rot?

[kerensa]

I am now very very very unhappy. I live in one of the areas they have found it evidently, and have not had any recent contact with wild or other snakes. One of my tiny ones has something that looks very similar (close to the first pic) that has been getting treated it with an antifungal, as the best the vet could come up with. He is tiny and active when trying to look so its hard to see for sure, He has some crusty stuff around the under side of the jaw and the cloudy eye, and no other evidence of anything elsewhere. He also spends enormous amounts of time soaking it. The anti-fungal treatment has not been super effective- but at this point its not like the write up is suggesting something more sure. He is in quarantine, but that is no guarantee of anything. He is the only snake here that shows any evidence of anything amiss.

Yes I will get photos to the best of our ability is anyone would like them for comparison purposes.
K.

I did read on the Aussie python group that tea tree oil is harmful to snakes. I'm not sure if its specifically to pythons- but I've been avoiding it in case.

USGS National Wildlife Health Center - Snake Fungal Disease

[kerensa]

These do not look anything in the photo to the reality my male has, and has been treated for. The photos on the Link Steve posted are really quite good. I will post one for comparison if you think it will help you.

K.

Here's the best I could get them to do. Sorry it's blurry- they were NOT happy about me rolling them over.
http://i1246.photobucket.com/albums/...hpole/rot2.png
http://i1246.photobucket.com/albums/...hpole/rot1.png
http://i1246.photobucket.com/albums/...hpole/rot3.png

[jwolfe152]

actually the pictures in the link steve posted the first 2 could be the same thing but they have probably had it for some time also it could be worse with humidity/temp fluctuations and your might not be so bad because of your husbandry. more of a constant temp/humidity, and less stress than the wild. just a thought

[kerensa]

actually with treatment, and more stable conditions, my male looks very close to the ones in the link, can't say he looks one bit better. Captivity and care do not seem to have made one iota of difference. The photo's ThamGirl posted, do not look anywhere as nasty as this does in person- and who knows, photos of it may not look anywhere near as nasty as it does in person either... I wish she had better photos, and of both snakes. It doesn't look to me like this did earlier either. It is very definitely something raised, its very very crusty like- its oddly colored sure enough, and its rough. When I first saw it I thought t was a bit of tilapia dried on, it has the same sort of sickly brown as dried tilapia...and tried to wash it off. since then its gone from a small speck to a U shape covering his Jaw, and he had treatment started when it was on only one side, and was about 1/6th- 1/8th the size it is now. Behavior wise, he is very sluggish, soaks himself and his head a great deal. He is likely to be soaking in his water dish most times of the day. According to the vet there is definitely a fungus at work. (pity there isn't yet a cure at work here)

K.


hmmm, editing. Having read the first post again, it sounds like maybe the males is familiar. Really wish I had thought to take pics every step along the way. the no swelling or anything raised sounds different however. maybe its just not happened yet. the rest sounds the same, but the pics don't look the same as what I see on mine. that doesn't mean a thing however. I certainly hope you don't have the same thing- its been viscous to my fella.

actually the pictures in the link steve posted the first 2 could be the same thing but they have probably had it for some time also it could be worse with humidity/temp fluctuations and your might not be so bad because of your husbandry. more of a constant temp/humidity, and less stress than the wild. just a thought

[ThamGirl]

Didn't see that they'd been on guppies.


Update:
The male finally died yesterday morning. Sad, but expected. The female, however, gave birth to seven babies! Her skin is looking much better, she's eating and active- so I really have high hopes for her. ^_^

[guidofatherof5]

Sorry to hear about the male and congrats on the new scrubs.

[ThamGirl]

Yet another update!
She has finally shed, and with that and her marked improvement, has been officially named Lamia. After her shed there are no signs of the infection! I'm continuing treatment anyways, until she gives me another clean shed. After that, she will go back with Bael and Nina.

EDIT: I should include, she's eating and drinking well, and gaining her wait back after giving birth. ^_^

[guidofatherof5]

What a wonderful update. Thanks.

[ThamGirl]

So, a not so good update now...

Lamia was doing great, but a couple days ago I noticed some very erratic behavior from her. She has been keeping her head up (at an almost 90 degree angle), and when she moves, she thrashes or rolls excessively and gets very little moving done. I'd be worried about a b1 deficiency, but she's been on Silversides, the occasional worm, and large guppies as treats from time to time- the same food as everyone else, and no one else is showing any issues. She's passing everything she eats and drinks fairly normally (though a tiny bit runnier than I like). She's gained most of her weight back from giving birth, she's clear of any jellies or stuck scrubs and there are no signs of infection, swelling, odd discharge or anything else to indicate any kind of parasites, bacteria, etc. Just neurological symptoms. I've got her in the quarantine tank still, a 15 gallon with a hide, newspaper, and a water dish deep enough to soak in. The temperature is within normal range and gradient, so that's not the issue. Since she's still quarantined, her water and bedding get changed daily, her tank cleaned with hot water every couple days, soap every week or so.
I tried getting a video of her moving, but between her and my crappy phone, it didn't turn out. I'll try again tomorrow.

TLDR: Other than the really odd movements, she's doing fine- but the movement issues are getting worse.

[d_virginiana]

Normally, these sorts of problems don't improve once they start having neuro symptoms. However, if she doesn't seem to be in pain, you may want to wait a bit before giving up hope. Sometimes fungi don't just cause tissue damage at the site of infection, but release toxins into the body. Without knowing the exact fungus that was involved there's no way to know what toxins could be involved. They can affect the way certain organs function, inhibit absorption of vitamins and nutrients, ect. Especially with the nutritional strain on her body from being gravid that could cause a deficiency.
There's a good chance permanent damage has been done to the nervous system, but I think it's possible that this is a tox-related issue due to the fungus... Especially since you said her poo is runny. That's not something you'd expect to necessarily see with neuro issues. More with abnormal nutrient absorption... I have a female that the vet said was showing symptoms of acute kidney failure a few months ago that turned out to be due to toxins released by parasites.

You could try flushing her system by getting her to drink as much as possible... If you have a good herp vet she could go to, they may be able to do blood work and see if there's anything particular she's missing. The fact that she's still eating just makes me wonder if this is the typical 'snake death-rolling' set of symptoms we hear about so often... Those snakes typically act like they're in constant pain and don't continue to eat well.