A note concerning pre-packaged frozen fish

[infernalis]

Since I have last posted in this thread, I have dug deeper and asked questions, A veterinarian whom I spoke with was highly interested in this as renal failure could very easily be attributed to the consumption of phosphates.

I say "Could" because until now, no one ever thought much about it.

When Chomper's uric acid levels soared off the charts, the vet asked me what I was feeding him, I said "Inverts" mostly frozen raw shrimp. She asked me to look at the package it came in, and sure enough there it was.. Sodium Tripolyphosphate.

Then I looked at my packaged fish, there it is again, so I went to the market and just started reading bag after bag of frozen seafoods, they all have it.

The trout that I started buying is farm raised locally, and the market I buy it at has a sign posted that clearly states "Farm fresh, certified chemical / preservative free organic rainbow trout"

Sudden snake deaths ceased once I began feeding the trout fillet.

[guidofatherof5]

Good update Wayne. Thanks.

[EasternGirl]

So now I'm confused...Stefan said that the coloring added to fish is safe and Richard is saying it isn't. I buy my fish from the seafood counter at my supermarket. I always make sure it is fresh, and not previously frozen. But my snakes really love salmon and it is hard to find salmon that does not have coloring added to it. We don't really have any shops around here that sell organic fish. So...should I not buy the salmon with the coloring added to it then? I should just buy tilapia or something like that?

[infernalis]

So now I'm confused...Stefan said that the coloring added to fish is safe and Richard is saying it isn't. I buy my fish from the seafood counter at my supermarket. I always make sure it is fresh, and not previously frozen. But my snakes really love salmon and it is hard to find salmon that does not have coloring added to it. We don't really have any shops around here that sell organic fish. So...should I not buy the salmon with the coloring added to it then? I should just buy tilapia or something like that?

You misunderstood.

The colouring is not what is dangerous, not that I know of. It's the phosphate.

If you can get Phosphate free fish, then you should be OK.

[Stefan-A]

The colouring is not what is dangerous, not that I know of. It's the phosphate.

If you can get Phosphate free fish, then you should be OK.

I think the dangerous part would be the sodium, not the phosphate. Or maybe not.

[EasternGirl]

But the fresh fish...the kind that has not been previously frozen should not contain sodium phosphate right?

[ConcinusMan]

So now I'm confused...Stefan said that the coloring added to fish is safe and Richard is saying it isn't.

I didn't say it wasn't safe. I just didn't know at all so when I saw that it was labeled "color added" I simply avoided it out of precaution.

Well that sucks about the darn chemicals in your fish Wayne. Still, I don't think that's any reason to condemn any one particular type of fish. Luckily I can buy fresh or frozen tilapia, salmon, steelhead, etc and nothing has beed added (except the steelhead has harmless coloring). I've never seen any sodium phosphates on any labels and certainly haven't had any deaths from preservatives that I know of. I just have to watch out for certain species due to their tendency to contain mercury and PCB's. For that reason, tilapia is the "cleanest". Just have to be certain no phosphates or sodium has been added. I'll say it again, most fish does have a significant amount of sodium naturally. I don't think that's what's causing a problem. Added sodium and certainly phosphates or any preservative is highly suspect. probably wouldn't hurt a mammal one bit, but to a bird or reptile, could be deadly as cyanide and cause rapid renal failure. Reptile / bird kidneys just don't work the same way as ours. They expel solid concentrated urates, not liquid urine. They can't handle excessive sodium and other chemicals that our kidneys expel easily and without harm. Giving them that stuff would be a similar outcome to a human drinking a half gallon of antifreeze. Rapid renal failure.

[ConcinusMan]

But the fresh fish...the kind that has not been previously frozen should not contain sodium phosphate right?

Make sure all fish you buy is just that. All natural. Fish and nothing added except perhaps water. Check the package labels on frozen fish or ask a supervisor about the "fresh" fish they sell. Like I said, my vacuum sealed tilapa for the ingredients says "tilapia fillet, water" and that's it. I've certainly had no issues with it even during times when I rely heavily on just the fish until I could afford mice and such.

Well I'm certainly glad that the mystery of the sudden death due to walmart tilapia mystery has been solved. You gotta check those labels. See what comes after "INGREDIENTS:" if it sounds "fishy" (pun intended) or you can't pronounce it, don't feed it to your snakes.

[infernalis]

To clarify Richard, it's not condemning any certain fish other than the products treated with rubbish.

Reptiles large and small seem very sensative to chemicals.

I have also switched dog foods, seems most canned dog food has sodium tripolyphosphate listed on the can.

Luckily, "Gravy Train" (cheap) has none in it.

[ConcinusMan]

OK, and just to clarify, I'll say again that if you're going to feed your snakes fillet, tilapia is the "cleanest" as far as PCB's and heavy metals go. That's because it's freshwater farm raised, and the fish is an herbivore. It also has a significant amount of calcium even without bones and is relatively low in fat. Salmon is OK for occasional use, but is high in fat and if you use anything but Alaskan pink salmon, than the PCB's or heavy metal content is significant enough to cause harm if used too often.

Virtually all fish on the market is contaminated with varying amounts of mercury and / or PCB's. This is a concern not only for the snakes, but anyone or anything that eats salmon. Eating too much of it, too often doesn't give your body time to eliminate the mercury. Eventually it builds up in your system to toxic levels. It's safe to eat. Just not a lot and not too often.

That's one of the reasons that tilapia has become so popular in recent years. Not only does it not deplete wild fish populations, but it's virtually free of contamination. It's safe to eat a lot of it often.

This of course is all independent of any preservative concerns.