I found an Albino Garden Snake

[chris-uk]

Yes, pretty much. A few of these have been found in the past few years which is just unheard of and it's always someone that doesn't know the first thing about husbandry or makes a "newbie mistake" like this one and kills it, or allows it to escape, or we never hear from them again.

One of the reasons we never hear from them again is because they feel intimidated by replies to their posts. Richard, you know your snakes, but your interpersonal skills are somewhat lacking. Even you're apology is a thinly veiled criticism.
I'm impressed that WarriorPrincess is still checking in with us and asking for advice. At the end of the day a "newbie" was in the right place at the right time and found her way to a forum where she could be guided and nurtured so that she wasn't a newbie who might make a mistake with a precious animal. In her position I would have stuck two finger up at you and you'd never have heard from me again.

If the ultimate goal is to get the genes from this garter into captive populations then being nice to the person that possesses it is probably the better approach.

[ConcinusMan]

One of the reasons we never hear from them again is because they feel intimidated by replies to their posts. Richard, you know your snakes, but your interpersonal skills are somewhat lacking. Even you're apology is a thinly veiled criticism.
I'm impressed that WarriorPrincess is still checking in with us and asking for advice. At the end of the day a "newbie" was in the right place at the right time and found her way to a forum where she could be guided and nurtured so that she wasn't a newbie who might make a mistake with a precious animal. In her position I would have stuck two finger up at you and you'd never have heard from me again.

If the ultimate goal is to get the genes from this garter into captive populations then being nice to the person that possesses it is probably the better approach.

You weren't there and most of the dialogue we had wasn't even on this forum and was over a year ago. The very moment anyone tried to give her husbandry advice, or pointed out things she might be doing wrong, nicely or not, she immediately got very defensive and shut her ears. Then the advice she did take, was putting a brumating snake in warm water so yeah, of course I'm critical. She doesn't seem to want real and proper, honest advice. She wants someone to tell her she's awesome and doing everything right.

[guidofatherof5]

You weren't there and most of the dialogue we had wasn't even on this forum and was over a year ago. The very moment anyone tried to give her husbandry advice, or pointed out things she might be doing wrong, nicely or not, she immediately got very defensive and shut her ears. Then the advice she did take, was putting a brumating snake in warm water so yeah, of course I'm critical. She doesn't seem to want real and proper, honest advice. She wants someone to tell her she's awesome and doing everything right.

People change and the past was the past.

[WarriorPrincess]

You weren't there and most of the dialogue we had wasn't even on this forum and was over a year ago. The very moment anyone tried to give her husbandry advice, or pointed out things she might be doing wrong, nicely or not, she immediately got very defensive and shut her ears. Then the advice she did take, was putting a brumating snake in warm water so yeah, of course I'm critical. She doesn't seem to want real and proper, honest advice. She wants someone to tell her she's awesome and doing everything right.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Hso...ZMNYyCcoWV6Fxw I believe Richard this is the dialogue you are referring to in my youtube account where you say I immediately got very defensive and ?? Shut my ears?? WTF dude!! You are offensive and judgmental a I asked you nicely to refrain from judging me or if you still felt the need to at least do so constructively. I noticed in the comment section you deleted the comment that started it all so you don't take any responsibility for my defensive behavior. So be it.... but I do receive every comment in an email from youtube and that is not deleted. So whatever! I'm sorry you feel personally deprived that I do not include your desire to be involved in this event but why would I? Neither Casper or myself are lost causes and I do not require anyone to tell me I'm awesome or doing everything right. You speak of honest advice when all your advise has been selfish and demeaning. Sure I am a newbie and you may have 25 years in your hobby but the only lost cause I see here is you ever owning any of Caspers offspring. So enjoy yourself speaking ill of me because yes at this point I am shutting my ears to you. Please consider your quote at the bottom of your post and re-evaluate yourself. " It is no measure of health to be well-adjusted to a profoundly sick society."

[slipknot711]

*walks out slowly*

[ConcinusMan]

"I noticed in the comment section you deleted the comment that started it all" That's because that comment wasn't intended for you at all. I told you that, and apoplogized for the mistake. Everything else isn't anything I haven't said here. I don't know what "experienced keepers" you are supposedly working with that told you to put a brumating snake in warm water but whoever it was is an idiot. I consider it a miracle that didn't kill it. When you bring a fish home and it's cold, you just drop it in a warm tank? No. That will kill them and will kill a snake too.

[chris-uk]

I think we need to consider the definition of "brumating snake". It wasn't a snake in brumation, it was a snake that was being kept in the same temperature gradient that decided to spend all its time on the cold side of the gradient. That to me isn't a "brumating snake".
As for the advice, aren't there several people who suggest popping a snake in warm water to encourage it to crap before you brumate it? Not something you should do for a snake that has actually been cooled to wake it up though.

I think Xena just doesn't use the correct terminology sometimes, which allows some people to jump to conclusions and criticise before asking reasonable questions.
All you've done Richard is guarantee you'll never see any offspring from this snake if it ever breeds, so if your motivation was wanting to see an albino Northwestern in the hobby you've kinda taken the wrong way about it. This is generally a nice forum, as you've shown that you have nothing nice to say in this thread I'd suggest that you pretend it doesn't exist and stop reading and posting in it Richard. That little move will make the world a slightly nicer place (and makes my comments above redundant).

[ConcinusMan]

I think we need to consider the definition of "brumating snake". It wasn't a snake in brumation, it was a snake that was being kept in the same temperature gradient that decided to spend all its time on the cold side of the gradient. That to me isn't a "brumating snake".

So it's being overheated too. i give up.

[chris-uk]

i give up.

Good. I used to think that you provided good advice, however over the years I've seen that your gems of advice are diluted more and more by the sort of rubbish we see in this thread.

You've got no evidence that the snake has been overheated. I've got an albino checkered which I haven't brumated thus year, she's spent almost all of the last two months in her cold hide, it's not because she's been overheated. The temps in her viv are the same as they have been for 2 years, and the normal checkered girl that lives with her spent a month in the cold hide before deciding it was time to eat and started to spend more time on the warm side. So I've also got an albino that has chosen to slow down for the winter (I'm experienced enough not to describe this as putting herself into brumation).
As Richard has kindly given up on this thread this post is aimed more to point out that spending time in a cold hide isn't necessarily a sign that your viv is too warm.

[ConcinusMan]

One of the reasons we never hear from them again is because they feel intimidated by replies to their posts.

Intimidated by words on a screen? sorry if I cannot relate to that. You might type "**** you" but my *** doesn't hurt so I am not intimidated.

Richard, you know your snakes

Enough said.

but your interpersonal skills are somewhat lacking.

So what. A snake couldn't care less about my interpersonal skills but I think that you are probably mistaken. Having a skill and actually using it are 2 different things.

Even you're apology is a thinly veiled criticism.

There is no veil. It's a criticism.

I'm impressed that WarriorPrincess is still checking in with us and asking for advice.

Why is that impressive? Seems the natural thing to do since you cannot ask the snake what it needs.

At the end of the day a "newbie" was in the right place at the right time and found her way to a forum where she could be guided and nurtured so that she wasn't a newbie who might make a mistake with a precious animal.

But she is a "newbie" and she did make a mistake.

In her position I would have stuck two finger up at you and you'd never have heard from me again.

But you aren't in her position, you didn't stick a finger up, and I did hear from you again.

If the ultimate goal is to get the genes from this garter into captive populations then being nice to the person that possesses it is probably the better approach.

Nope. applying knowledge proper husbandry and experience is all that matters. The snake will thrive and reproduce if said knowledge is applied. snake's health is not dependent on me being a "nice" person.

You've got no evidence that the snake has been overheated.

Sure I do. The behavior of the snake is all the evidence I need.

I've got an albino checkered which I haven't brumated thus year, she's spent almost all of the last two months in her cold hide, it's not because she's been overheated.

sure it is. The snake is seeking the coolest part of the viv. What more evidence do you need? Does the snake need to hold up a neon sign before you get the message?

The temps in her viv are the same as they have been for 2 years, and the normal checkered girl that lives with her spent a month in the cold hide before deciding it was time to eat and started to spend more time on the warm side. So I've also got an albino that has chosen to slow down for the winter (I'm experienced enough not to describe this as putting herself into brumation)

Then you are probably experienced enough to know that during a brumation period, "overheating" temps during that time, is not the same temperature as overheating during the summer.

As Richard has kindly given up on this thread

I didn't say that I gave up on the thread.

this post is aimed more to point out that spending time in a cold hide isn't necessarily a sign that your viv is too warm.

True. It's a sign that it's too warm for a snake in "self brumation". either way, its a sign that the snake is overheated.

All you've done Richard is guarantee you'll never see any offspring from this snake if it ever breeds

How many times do I have to say that I don't care if I see them. I just want to see it happen.

you pretend it doesn't exist and stop reading and posting in it Richard. That little move will make the world a slightly nicer place (and makes my comments above redundant).

The world isn't a nice place and I'm not out to change that.