5 gal. tank?

[infernalis]

Why the heck not?? I have NEVER had a snake die from living in a 5 gallon tank.

I have a yearling eastern living in one right now, he has been in it since last spring when he was born, and he is doing just fine.

[zooplan]

Back to the well of this thread I like to ask ( again?)
What size ( height, width, length ) is a five gallon tank.
It´s so unususal to type a terrarium by volume here.
My smallest Faunabox (plastic enclosure) is only 2 gallons, but my smallest glas terrariums for babies have 7.14 gallons. (19, 29,6, 50,8 are those for subadults and breeders)
I think expanse is more important than height.

[aSnakeLovinBabe]

wow.... I just read this entire thread. I am going to try and not write a book here... what I can say is that to anyone who has been regularly contributing to this thread, there are points that I agree with just about everyone here. Especially Stefan.... you can always count on Stefan to tell it how it is and leave it!

Now lets get something straight here. I have worked with just about every commonly worked with non-venomous snake type that you could think of, I have used both enclosures and tubs/racks. My snakeroom is a hybrid mix of rack systems and enclosures. I like them both for varying reasons. Whether the container we are keeping a snake is a glass box, or a plastic box, it's still a box, and it's still OUR JOB to ensure the snake's well being. The moment we took snakes out of their natural environment and put them into a box we lose all hopes of trying to match what they would have in the wild.

I am very much a person of fact and one of my pet peeves is people who think their snakes love them, that their snakes are lonely or whatever... snakes couldn't care less about us.

BUT, we cannot generalize all snakes. I am a strong believer that not all snakes are suited for a rack system. And no one is ever going to change that opinion. Snakes are as different from one another as anything else. When you look at our hobby, it is EASY to see which snakes are best suited for the rack system. Because their populations have exploded in this hobby and are out of control. Ball pythons, corn snakes, bloods, western hognoses, I could name ten more, but there is really no need.

One thing I can say is that, you can definitely keep a garter snake in a tub. It is done all the time. Hell, I do it all the time. But the tubs I use are about 30x18, they have more floor space than a 20 gallon long, but are a quarter of the weight, are easier to clean and sure, I can't see through them all the way, but that doesn't matter. I would never keep a garter snake in a small tub where it would not even have the option to move about. One thing I see a lot of? Really obese checkered garter snakes. You see them all the time at shows. They are obese because they are fed a great big hulking rodent once a week and they are given a relatively small enclosure with a hide and a water dish. They spend most of their time under their hide digesting that huge meal, because it takes so long, the snake will not be active during this time because it has no need. In this case they will act just like a perfectly healthy corn snake and will live many years.

But what people are missing is that is NOT how garter snakes are meant to live. They will survive this way, but it's not optimal. Garter snakes will take prey every day in the wild if they can. They eat smaller, more frequent meals all of the time. They eat mostly things, such as worms and fish and frogs, that pass VERY quickly through the digestive tract. They will still eat mice and birds in the wild, but that's not going to make up the bulk of their diet. Because they are active foragers, they are out and about for a good portion of the day. They are designed to eat and digest things quickly, and they do not spend the majority of their time hiding. Maybe at night they are hiding, but during the day garter snakes are rarely sedentary, unless it's the heat of the day and it's uncomfortably hot, or if the weather is otherwise unfavorable. 9 times out of 10 the only time I find a garter snake under a rock is during the heat of the day, when the temps are higher than garters like.

I try to explain this to people all of the time, and they don't seem to understand it. Garter snakes WILL live and seemingly do great with a sedentary lifestyle, but generally, their body may not be as tip-top shape as they may appear. Garter snakes are not meant to live a sedentary lifestyle. They don't do it in the wild, they do not spend all of their time hiding, they spend it foraging and basking out in the open. And in captivity they will mirror this. Give a healthy garter snake a basking light and it will bask all day... it will crawl around and do whatever the hell garter snakes do. It will hardly hide, and if it does, it may still be exhibiting some fear towards the keeper. Even the most fearful garter snake will usually lose it's fear of the keeper eventually and will adopt the non-sedentary lifestyle.

Back to my enclosures. The tubs that I set up mirror the way that I would set up an enclosure. Multiple hides, a fake plant or two, and a water bowl that is large enough for the snake to fit in. Maybe a branch or something that they have to make the effort of crawling over top of now and then, it will give them better muscle tone. And the snakes that live in them are as well fed as a garter can be, and they are still active from the moment the sun starts coming in through the windows until it sets. Baby garter snakes don't seem to thrive nearly as well in tubs as adults and juveniles, for a few reasons. One, sliding the tub in and out scares them and will cause them not to feed. Two, baby garters react so strongly to having a light, it's incredible. Often the ONLY thing I need to change to get a finicky baby eating regularly is to provide a light. it doesn't even have to be a basking light with extra heat. If that desn't work, moving the baby in with a few other snakes that have a vigorous appetite can do the trick. For some reason, all of the other baby snakes eating around the "shy" one triggers a monkey-see monkey-do kind of effect, and he becomes more willing to eat, and to try new foods.

When I am at a show, I can always tell a garter snake that is being kept in a smaller enclosure without much to "do" other than eat a mouse once a week and then crawl back into a hide to digest it. All you have to do is pick them up. You can feel the difference in muscle tone and in how "alert" they are. They may be an outwardly healthy snake but it is easy to see through that when you are intimately familiar with the "little things" about garter snakes and similar active species. I see a similar effect with carpet pythons. Snakes are amazing in that they can adapt to just about any lifestyle if it means surviving. But not all snakes are suited to hide all of the time... garter snakes, even wild ones spend most of their time out in plain sight, and rely on their own vision and senses to spot a predator and RUN for cover. But they will wait for the danger to pass and come right back out. They even sneak peeks at you to see if you have left yet.

So often, I see keepers that make their snakes conform to what is easiest for the keeper, and what makes the keeper happiest, when not everything is taken into account as far as the snake is concerned. And then as long as the snake is eating, pooping, and hiding and seems outwardly OK, the mainstream consensus becomes that the bare minimum is acceptable. Ball pythons do SO well with nothing but a dark tub and a bowl of water. In some snakes, it is enough. In MOST snakes it is "enough", but "enough" and "optimal" are not the same.


Oh.... and to the original question... you can keep a baby garter snake NO PROBLEMS in a 5 gallon tank. You can even have your precious perfect thermal gradient. Anyone who says it can't be done, simply hasn't tried, or tried and failed miserably. I have a 5 gallon tank that has reared MANY healthy babies.

I saw ringnecks were mentioned. Not really a good choice... their main diet is snakes!

[ConcinusMan]

They even sneak peeks at you to see if you have left yet.

See 0:48 to 1:05



I've been out there and just sat still and watched the snakes. They are zipping around, moving about, and very, very active. They really a lot of the time just seem to be "frolicking". They're not hunting, they're not moving because they are hot or cold and yet there they are, moving about, climbing, watching, etc. The thing I like about watching them is that sometimes they will be watching me, get curious and actually approach.

[RedSidedSPR]

Thank you Shannon. You just backed up what I (we.. some of us) have been saying. They do need exercise, they are active, more so than other snakes, they need room. Nicely put.

Richard, I agree with the "to small for heat gradient" stuff. I am not likely to put anything in there after all. Partly because of heat and just because: what's the point? Buy a bigger tank if you can.
But I do agree that they CAN live in a small tank, even thrive, if you do it right.

Also I, and some others, said awhile back, "they have emotions", I don't really think they have EMOTIONS, but they do have some feelings. Fear, curiosity etc.

I also have nothing against tubs, as long as you still make it a nice habitat. But I do think enclosures are a better choice. For both the snake and the keeper.

I do respect everyone's opinion, but I especially respect and agree with what Richard, Shannon, Wayne, and anyone else who have been saying what they have. I don't think garters should be expected to live like less active snakes in small enclosures etc.

Now... continue arguing.

I saw ringnecks were mentioned. Not really a good choice... their main diet is snakes!

In captivity they can live off of worms alone... at least that's what I've heard. I only brought that up because I have a lot of them at near my house.

[aSnakeLovinBabe]

In captivity they can live off of worms alone... at least that's what I've heard. I only brought that up because I have a lot of them at near my house.

I have tried a few adult ringnecks on worms... never could get them to eat them. I did find 4 eggs once in a trash pile, and they hatched into 4 beautiful baby ringnecks. I fed them worms a few times before releasing them in the area they were laid (but not in trash lol) Maybe if they are started on worms it would work... but I think the adults, having already tasted snakes... well, you know what I mean!

[RedSidedSPR]

Ok... so I'll do it... any objections Richard?

[infernalis]

Lay a 3" flexiwatt tape along the back edge, heat gradient.. EZ

[ConcinusMan]

Do what you will. Come back later and wonder what went wrong.

[Millinex]

Go find some sort of fence lizard, little suckers are fun as hell to watch rip up huge crickets lol.