Pregnant Puget Sound

[bkhuff1s]

I've come across an interesting article http://www.jstor.org/pss/27669711 , it raised a question about garter ovulation. What does it look like in a snake?

[ConcinusMan]

That article is very old and represents the knowledge current for the time it was written. Advances in DNA mapping and many tests since that day have caused major changes in finding true relationships between various species and subspecies of animals, including garter snakes.

Thamnophis ordinoides is no doubt it's own species. It is only by very distant ancestors, related to puget garters. The scientific conclusions made in the original text are in error. It is only provided as a historical context. Don't take it as current truth.

Puget sound garters, Oregon red spotted garters, CA red sided garters, eastern garters are more closely related to each other. Think of them as humans that are black, white, and Chinese.

Ordinoides is fairly alien, like a chimp to a human. Any of the above mentioned T. sirtalis are closer relatives to T. elegans than they are to T. ordinoides.

[Spankenstyne]

Unfortunately Pugets are illegal to collect in BC.

I guess the blue ones aren't very common in the wild up here(there) either. A longtime field herper I was chatting with who has seen a ton of Pugets in the wild in BC laughed when I asked him how many blues he had come across. "They don't come in blue" he kept telling me until I sent him a few pictures which got an "well I'll be damned, I guess they do" ... He just hasn't seen any.

I tried to get some Pugets with the Santa Cruz order I had a buddy pick up in Daytona last year for me from Mr Felzer. Unfortunately he was out of them at the time
I do have some connections to possibly have stuff properly shipped up here from the US, the catch is it needs to be sent via California so it will need to be stuff that's legal to be shipped from there.

[ConcinusMan]

That's funny. I hear the opposite. The border area and into Canada is rumored to have very blue pugets. It's when you get into the southern limits of their range, they lose the blue. Hmmm...

Oh, and It was actually Mt. Vernon where my brother was having to scoop aside blue puget garters back in late March. So, basically from Everett northward and into Canada, plenty of blue pugets but there are also some that don't have blue and are kinda plain, or have a greenish tint instead of blue.

[bkhuff1s]

I was aware that the article was dated to say the least. I was just curious about the ovulation, that's all, lol

[Spankenstyne]

That's funny. I hear the opposite. The border area and into Canada is rumored to have very blue pugets. It's when you get into the southern limits of their range, they lose the blue. Hmmm...

Oh, and It was actually Mt. Vernon where my brother was having to scoop aside blue puget garters back in late March. So, basically from Everett northward and into Canada, plenty of blue pugets but there are also some that don't have blue and are kinda plain, or have a greenish tint instead of blue.

I can't confirm it personally as I haven't knowingly found any in the wild having moved away when I was 17 and now knowing more about the ssp and colour variations. When I was a kid finding garters anything with an orange or red stripe was labelled as a "red racer" lol.