I have fed my Garter/Ribbon Goldfish for 13 years. Is Thiaminase a problem?

[Millinex]

Sorry, my inner biologist is refusing to let me just let this go... Guppies and minnows are really completely different things. Minnows and goldfish are both in the Cyprinid family (along with carp and barbs). Some minnow species can have high levels of thiaminase just like goldfish ("rosy red minnows" are often mentioned on this forum as an example). Some minnows may be safe to feed, I'm not sure, you'd have to check that list linked to a few posts back.

Guppies on the other hand are in the Poecilid family and do not have high levels of (or perhaps any) thiaminase. In most pet stores you're more likely to find fancy guppies, meant to be kept as pets (and selling for $2 each). But some stores sell plain guppies (usually less than an inch long) as feeder fish. I've found that at least in my area, a tank of "feeder guppies" often actually contains a mix of guppies and a related species, the Endler's livebearer. Doesn't matter from the snakes' point of view, both are safe to feed - and equally yummy, judging by my boys' reaction to them.

Anyway, I'm sorry Millinex, I don't mean to be rude in the least, but since the distinction is actually important when it comes to feeding snakes, I thought it was worth correcting the mistake.

It's not a problem I'm just speaking from experience from a lot of people I see come in the stores. I know full well the differences between the 2, however there are a huge populous who frankly, has no idea the difference. My father called the minnows guppies for years until I got around to correcting him.

[DrKate]

It's not a problem I'm just speaking from experience from a lot of people I see come in the stores.

Oh, right on... I read your original post as you saying they were the same thing, but people used two different names. Sorry! Well anyway, the clarification is there in case anyone who *is* one of those confused people comes along and happens to read it.

[KITKAT]

http://www.thamnophis.com/caresheets...?title=Thiamin,

YouTube - Thiamin deficiency

[tspuckler]

You might want to get a positive ID on what type of garter you have. I don't think there are any ribbon snakes native to California. The website California Reptiles and Amphibians may help you determine what you have (it has range maps and photos).

I've had a very easy time converting fish-eating snakes to rodents using the methods others have descibed in this post.

Though I've often wondered about wild snake species that are primarily fish-eaters. I know that they have access to frogs, toads and other prey items - but it seems to me there are some types of wild snakes that mostly (and perhaps exclusively) eat fish, and this would imply their wild diet is not nutritionally deficient.

This is a great topic of discussion and I think it shows that there are still unanswered questions about both wild and captive snakes.

Santa Cruz Garter that I found in April:

[jitami]

You might want to get a positive ID on what type of garter you have. I don't think there are any ribbon snakes native to California.

Tim, did I miss something? He described his snake as "It is Black with White/Yellow stripes on the side with a Greyish/Green? belly." He also said it was caught in/near Sacramento. I'm certainly not an expert, but given location and description it points to T.e.elegans. Note your atratus doesn't have side stripes. His could possibly be fitchi, but he'd likely be seeing (and describing?) some red. Of course, I'd love to see a picture. Hope the original poster checks back in with us.

[tspuckler]

I was encouraging him to get a positive ID on the snake he has. There are more than one type of garter (and no ribbon) snake that live in the Sacramento area.

I was not implying that he has a Santa Cruz Garter - their range is south of Sacramento. I was just showing off a garter I caught earlier this year.

Tim

[jitami]

I'm sorry, Tim. I didn't even notice the 'Garter/Ribbon' in the title. I kept wondering why you were referring to ribbons... sorry... yes, I am blonde in case you're wondering. You're right, though, no ribbons in CA and I'm assuming he has the same kind of garter as I do, which is why I pointed him towards my pictures. Figured if he doesn't have pics he could at least compare them to my e. elegans. The CA herps page is awesome as well.

[tspuckler]

No big deal Tami,

I misread (or seem to not see) elements in posts more than I'd like. I checked out your photos - Sly and Ella are two sharp looking elegans!

Tim

[jitami]

No big deal Tami,

I misread (or seem to not see) elements in posts more than I'd like. I checked out your photos - Sly and Ella are two sharp looking elegans!

Tim

Thanks Tim

[Odie]

Just got done looking this up with the vet Thiaminase is a problem in (some species of) fish that have not been fresh frozen or are slowly thawed Trout & largemouth bass do not Thiaminase