A disturbing trend, really disturbing

[drache]

danm! I had a whole long post written and it just disappeared

to reiterate
thanks for starting this thread, Wayne

it disturbs me that people intentionally take gravid females from the wild
it disturbs me that people take large quantities of snakes from the wild
it doesn't bother me when someone takes one or two snakes to keep or even breed down the line
it does bother me when I see snakes being sold for five or ten bucks, because I can see that they're not valued and what that spells out down the line

I love having babies, but I also want them to go to a good place and will probably no longer breed any of my snakes that are not likely to have desirable, slightly pricey offspring

accidents do happen, but people with experience tend to be better at preventing them

experience is generally something one gains with time and slowly
it's not really okay to practice on live beings
the intent for a beginner should be to get their first snake to thrive before they get more - that's all

the fact that people end up here is a good thing

[anji1971]

Thank you, Rhea.
I've been pondering this thread since yesterday, and couldn't for the life of me organize my thoughts/opinions into a coherent post. That happens to me often!
You just summed up most of them right there.

It is very easy, when first becoming hooked on snakes, to want to get as many as possible as soon as possible. You'll want to raise babies, lots of babies. That's not an abnormal impulse. However, it is important to recognize that the thrill of a new and exciting hobby is a different story from the reality of everything entailed in practising that hobby.
We must continue to gently remind the newer "snake addicts" to slow down, learn, and gain experience. There is a lifetime to acquire a great snake collection, and be able to breed them responsibly if one so chooses.
And yes, hopefully, all those newcomers will find this place.

[MoJo]

Thanks for starting the thread Wayne. I don't have anything to add since I think most people have clearly stated my opinion that taking a gravid female from the wild is wrong and that breeding may be easy but caring for the offspring and finding homes for them is often not.

[adamanteus]

Interesting that this topic has reared it's head again.
http://www.thamnophis.com/forum/gene...lecting+gravid
I think the point that some people are inclined to miss is that the criticism is against the deliberate collection of gravid females, not against the collection of wild Garters per se. Although I'm sure there are those who would argue against even this.
It's a good topic and an interesting discussion. I'm sure we can talk about this without personal attacks or offending anyone.

[Steven@HumboldtHerps]

Great thread; a necessary one! Good job Wayne! Great commentary Stefan!
Sorry I have not been that active lately. Work has been kicking my ... !

Steve

P.S. Saw 5 black bears in the woods yesterday! (2 black cubs - whereabouts of mama unknown, but nearby to be sure!; and 2 cinnamon cubs with a cinnamon mom!)

[zooplan]

The worst thing on collecting gravid females is to me when it happends for commercial interests.
I don´t know what it is like today, but I remember that gravid females were offered on kingsnake.com only few years ago.

[infernalis]

Udo I have seen gravid snakes offered on Kingsnake very recently

[zooplan]

I guessed so

On German fairs it is forbidden to offer any gravid or ill animals.

[infernalis]

I wish that were true here in the US.

One reason why I have a hard time at shows, is the blatant disregard for life.

I would likely get arrested if I were to step up to the "wrong" table.

[KITKAT]

OK... an ethics question...

A garter hobbyist collects a gravid female, feeds her and successfully keeps her until she drops her offspring.

The female is then released where she was found.

The offspring are all fed at least once, the garter hobbyist keeps four offspring, and releases all others, near where the gravid mother was found.

Fair or foul???