Collecting Gravid Females.

[adamanteus]

can I ask you something? Adam Ant fan?

Dear me, no! I chose my name for Crotalis adamanteus .... the Eastern Diamondback Rattlesnake... the best Rattler I ever kept!

Plus, I think it kind of suits me.....

1. Impervious to pleas, persuasion, requests, reason
   "he is adamant in his refusal to change his mind"
   - adamantine, inexorable, intransigent
2. Adamant and similar words are used to refer to any especially hard substance, whether composed of diamond, some other gemstone, or some type of metal. Both adamant and diamond derive from the Greek word αδαμας (adamas), meaning "untameable". Adamantite and adamantium (a metallic name derived from the Neo-Latin ending -ium) are also common variants.

[infernalis]

See that, until now I never knew the Latin scientific name for Eastern Diamondbacks

[jitami]

Can I just say that there have been some excellent, thought provoking, discussions the last few days. I'm loving it and just soaking it all in.

Personally, I have thought of looking for a gravid female, raising babies, and then releasing them. My first thought was actually to find a native non-gravid female to pair with my male and release any young that may result. However, in California, it seems that "propagation" of any native reptile requires a license. I don't remember all of the ins and outs, but after reading the fish and game regulations I came to the conclusion that collecting a gravid female would fill my desire to raise young, still enable me to release all but one or two of those young along with the female, and have a relatively clear conscious that I did not damage the native population. Other Californians please feel free to correct me if you interpreted the regulations differently. It's definitely not something to be taken lightly and perhaps I'm being selfish, but I would much rather produce young native garters to release than to purchase non natives and then have to worry about whether the resulting babies are in good homes, etc.

I hope that made sense. I'm definitely still learning and my opinions are still forming

[Sid]

My personal feeling is that anyone taking from the wild for profit is wrong. We see it very frequently in the spring and summer ads related to snakes for sale. I did keep a WC gravid Eastern last year that was rescued from a neighbors yard. She had been hit with a stick and needed help, which she received. Later she had 9 babies, only 5 of them alive. I kept one and released the other 4 as well as the mom. If I were to find a very unusual female in the wild, I may very well keep it and if it is gravid release the babies.

The shorter version is that I think its wrong to remove gravid females from the wild, especially for profit.

[Zephyr]

My personal feeling is that anyone taking from the wild for profit is wrong. We see it very frequently in the spring and summer ads related to snakes for sale. I did keep a WC gravid Eastern last year that was rescued from a neighbors yard. She had been hit with a stick and needed help, which she received. Later she had 9 babies, only 5 of them alive. I kept one and released the other 4 as well as the mom. If I were to find a very unusual female in the wild, I may very well keep it and if it is gravid release the babies.

The shorter version is that I think its wrong to remove gravid females from the wild, especially for profit.

Definitely agree on the profit bit.

[infernalis]

That is why I have not purchased any "normal" red sided garters.

I have wanted at least one or two for a long while, but all the advertisers are grabbing them up and then want 50 bucks for it, plus another 50 to ship it. I refuse to support that.

Now for my non Garter animals, My Cyclophiops Major (Asian Green Snake) is a WC from China, There is no husbandry data (Google and try) and very little specifics available on this species.

The importers pass on this species because most people wind up with a dead snake in short order, cry robbery and demand refunds.

Using only common sense, Limon has thrived in my house for months so far, he eats every day, shed for me 3 times and is growing. (The bugger is already 3 and a half feet now.)

If I can get the guy to procure me a female, I want to try and get them to lay a clutch for me. So far this animal has been a dream, I allowed him to chose what he wants, and then went from there.

I have a hard time coping with people who raid ball python, monitor and iguana nests and hatch the eggs, sell the babies to anyone, weather or not they are capable of taking care of it, and will gladly take your money again when it dies.

[enigma200316]

I agree to that this forum has changed, becoming an every day run of the mill reptile forum and yes complete with the flamming and starting of (BS)
and I'll say once again, you people that say it is not right to take wild snakes should think a minute if it were not for that than there would be no captive breed snakes for they had to catch some from the wild to begin the industry........so anyway since you can't put anything on here any more without being judged I will let you all know now I'm leaving the forum, and best wishes to you all.......bye bye

[GartersRock]

Sorry to see you go! =(
And on the subject. I stand that taking large amounts from the wild to sell for profit can definently be questionable. But individuals (esp breeders who breed for good, ethical reasons) who take from the wild in small quanitys is fine. And a good thing, for as enigma200316 says. All CB originally came from the wild and CB garters really aren't that easy to come by...
That being said. Everyone is fully entitled to their own opinions.

[aSnakeLovinBabe]

I've only ever taken two females knowing they were gravid, and one was my hypo (btw i am almost positive she is gravid this year) and the other is my erythristic. My large WC eastern female I caught earlier this year, i had no idea was gravid, but, she is now! One of my males may have bred her when I set up the community eastern cage though. My little brother caught me a garter snake that he found in someone's garage, I have had her since early march and lo and behold she is also carrying little ones. I held on to her when my brother brought her to me because she had some scale rot which has since been healing well.

If I find an unusual snake again, (like how i found my hypo) i will keep it regardless of male or female. It was actually convienient that my hypo was gravid at the time I found her, it gave me a bit of a head start in proving out her genetics in these years to come.

[aSnakeLovinBabe]

I agree to that this forum has changed, becoming an every day run of the mill reptile forum and yes complete with the flamming and starting of (BS)
and I'll say once again, you people that say it is not right to take wild snakes should think a minute if it were not for that than there would be no captive breed snakes for they had to catch some from the wild to begin the industry........so anyway since you can't put anything on here any more without being judged I will let you all know now I'm leaving the forum, and best wishes to you all.......bye bye

oh man.....