Urgent Force Feeding Help

[Simland]

Yes, that's true, using an infrared camera would be kind of like taking your snakes temperature...at least, its surface temperature (and I'm guessing ectotherms have roughly similar internal and surface temperatures after being in a given place for a while). Do you get an actual temperature reading with it, or a bracket (e.g. this shade of red means 10-15C)?

It's an expensive way to take keep track of temperatures, though. A bit out of my reach at the moment.

[Simland]

I'd never heard of a rock acting as such a good heat sink. They're usually pretty good at remitting electromagnetic energy as heat even after the sun has gone down. I guess its bad luck to have picked a heat sink rock for a basking spot, but it could lead to a neat little experiment.

I think if you monitor the snake constantly, there shouldn't be any problems, but that depends on what, exactly you're going to do. 'will go read your other thread.

[joeysgreen]

Rocks are massive heat sinks. It takes a LOT of energy to warm up something with that mass just a few degrees.

Another thing to consider, and this may affect how your temp guns, FLIR camera, or anything that measures surface temperature, is a substances ability to conduct heat. Take a steel plate, granite rock, cement slab, and piece of wood. Heat them in the sun to 100F on a hot summer day. Touch them and which feels hotter? They are all 100F. I would be curious if these different thermometers would all read them as the same temperature, or if conduction plays a role as well. I honestly don't know how a laser reads surface temperature (or for that matter, if the air temperature that the laser passes through affects the reading).

For practicality, acknowledging that garter snakes experience temperature ranges much more extensive than what our care sheets suggest, we may consider incorporating that into our husbandry, in larger than minimal standard housing. For my animals, I routinely offer temperatures up to 100F because while their POTZ is much lower, they certainly have access to this in the wild. Because I also offer a dynamic environment of dimensions that offers everything they need at temperatures throughout their thermal gradient, I can be confident that offering such hot temperatures only adds to their habitat, and doesn't detract from it.

Ian

[BUSHSNAKE]

I have found garters in 63 degree weather and rarely but sometimes even in cooler temps. But temps over 85...rarely...temps over 90...never.

[joeysgreen]

I remember walking along a trail in southern BC and the garter snakes would be present so long as the sun was out. A tiny cloud could cause a 10 minute shadow and they'd disappear only to be out again as soon as the sun was back. It was gartersnake heaven, the most snakes I've seen outside of a hibernaculum.

[Simland]

Rocks are massive heat sinks. It takes a LOT of energy to warm up something with that mass just a few degrees.

I disagree at least partly with that sentence. You may be right in an absolute sense (i.e. maybe they disperse heat from other objects). However, compared to other materials (soil, wood, etc.) they radiate a lot more of the electromagnetic radiation back out as heat. If you're standing on a huge rock slab on a sunny day, you'll be much warmer than if you're standing on soil, wood, grass, etc. Of course, the degree to which they do that depends on a few factors, including color and, probably, rock type.

[Simland]

I would be curious if these different thermometers would all read them as the same temperature, or if conduction plays a role as well. I honestly don't know how a laser reads surface temperature (or for that matter, if the air temperature that the laser passes through affects the reading).

I was wondering the same thing: how do these thermometers handle difference in specific heat (the difference in the number of Joules it takes to heat a molecule by one degree).

[Rushthezeppelin]

I disagree at least partly with that sentence. You may be right in an absolute sense (i.e. maybe they disperse heat from other objects). However, compared to other materials (soil, wood, etc.) they radiate a lot more of the electromagnetic radiation back out as heat. If you're standing on a huge rock slab on a sunny day, you'll be much warmer than if you're standing on soil, wood, grass, etc. Of course, the degree to which they do that depends on a few factors, including color and, probably, rock type.

It only acts to radiate back when you have the full power of the sun though. A little 60w in a reflector is not sufficienty to really effectively heat a 10 lb limestone rock, especially when it's also half burried in another heatsink, soil (I'm doing bioactive setup with that rock I was referring to).

[joeysgreen]

Yes, regarding the heat sink rock. Think about your scenario about standing on the rock versus the soil or wood. If you were to try that in the morning, the rock would feel cool a lot longer than the other materials. Later in the evening, after the sun goes down, it remains warmer much longer, because it has absorbed so much more energy during the day. Now if you don't supply enough energy (as per the 60W bulb example) to increase the rock's temperature to the same as the rest of the enclosure, then it will constantly be a heat sink; because energy goes from warm to cold.

[Simland]

Yes, regarding the heat sink rock. Think about your scenario about standing on the rock versus the soil or wood. If you were to try that in the morning, the rock would feel cool a lot longer than the other materials. Later in the evening, after the sun goes down, it remains warmer much longer, because it has absorbed so much more energy during the day. Now if you don't supply enough energy (as per the 60W bulb example) to increase the rock's temperature to the same as the rest of the enclosure, then it will constantly be a heat sink; because energy goes from warm to cold.

That's almost essentially my point. I almost put a word in there about it being context specific (e.g. the slab of rock being a heat sink part of the day and a heat source the rest of it and part of the night).

I didn't know we were talking about a 10 pound rock with a 60W bulb. I wonder what my 75W bulb is doing to my smaller and thinner rock. 'will check when I get my heat gun.