Duvernoy's gland (thought this was a good read)

[BLUESIRTALIS]

I have been bit several times since with no reactions, but none have chewed on me or got me with the rear teeth. It's just a simple strike and let go with a few scratches. If you look at the first bite pic you can tell it was a very deep bite.

[EasternGirl]

Looks like envenomation to me. You should have seen the big purple bruise on my thumb that time Cee Cee decided she was a rattlesnake and jumped across the tank and struck me really hard. In the book I was talking about, the author said that the person who was bitten by the garter was bitten several times over a period of time before the systemic reaction occurred. It was also a child. But, it makes it sound as though our bodies hold the venom somehow.

[jaleely]

An interesting topic. Steve recently sent me a book on medical uses of venom...awesome book. In the book the author does discuss the Duvernoy's gland and the fact that snakes with this gland can actually be classified as venomous, although they do little actual damage. The book cites a couple of cases in which people bit more than once...over an extended period of time...began to show symtoms, including systemic symptoms of envenomation. The author states that it is actually envenomation that occurs and not an allergic reaction (we actually had a discussion on here about this before). He states that the venom produces from the gland actually helps in subduing prey upon ingestion. I know that I am allergic to just about everything. Even carefresh makes me get red and itchy. But, I have been bit by my snakes many times recently...enough to draw blood...and I have never had any kind of reaction to date.

Very good post!

Yes they have duvernoy's gland, and rear fangs, which in a "threat" bite do not have a chance to "chew" with and envenomate you...however if they think you're food you're in for it!
Also the saliva being an anticoagulant is under speculation. I'll have to look that one up specifically for garters.

I have been bitten by my garters but they are still so small they don't even break the skin...and now are so used to their actual food they've improved their aim to go right for that lol

I have however been chewed on twice by one of my hognose snakes. They are rear fanged and have a duvernoy's gland with poor delivery as well (no hollow teeth or groves in the fangs to deliver into the wound). First time i let him chew too long because it was funny...and i wanted a photo LOL he was just a baby, and i didn't expect it...this was of course due to lack of education.
Second time he bit me, i was holding him while i cleaned out his cage and apparently....i still smelled like FISH from feeding the garters!!! He was much bigger this time, got a really squishy bite on my fatty finger, so it got right in the back there. I held him underwater thinking he'd let go...and just kept holding him thinking..okay dude it's not food, you need to breathe, let go! But he wouldn't!! Stared right at my face the whole time and all it did was make him bite harder. I finally had to have my hubby come help me unhook him from my finger (which was a last resort as i didn't want to hurt him).

Anyway, I get into this because their bites are the same as a garter's would be. So the first time, i had some numbing and swelling on my thumb near the site. The puncture marks actually got little blisters on them. There was no bleeding.
The second time...my entire hand had swollen up, almost to my elbow. There was immidiate swelling, and i took photos. No excessive bleeding. In fact no bleeding but just a tiny bit after we got him off.
He got to chew a long time, AND it was the second time i'd had the venom in my system, so the reaction was pretty strong.

Anyway, needless to say i learned a bit about the duvernoy's gland that day. I missed two days of work because i couldn't TYPE in the office LOL kind of not funny, but also kind of funny.
I'm much more careful with him now. The first time i didn't know what he was doing when he wanted to bite me, the second time i wasn't looking at him to see his interest. He's the little jerk i can't get to eat mice actually..he only wants FISH lol

[jaleely]

This is how i got him off the first time. Needless to say it didn't work the second time lol

[jaleely]

This is right after the second bite. ..about an hour later. You can see he got into the fleshy part of the finger lol


I think this was taken about three or four hours later.


This was the next morning, approximately 11 hours later


Over the next day the swelling went up my forearm halfway, not a lot, but it was there. It took about two weeks for swelling to go down to this:


There was numbing in the bite area, however the real damage i recieved was due to the extreme swelling. There were broken capillaries in my finger and the back of my hand.
It was a good learning expeirence, and i treat him with more respect now than just a silly snake biting me. I'm glad he didn't get hurt....i took this photo of him a few weeks later (just showing him off here)

But the point of that photo is, i wanted him after his shed because he's a unique green....but he DID try to bite me the entire photo shoot! He's one of those "nom"-ers so he just kept nosing me then trying to open his mouth. lol little brat. I made him stop, snapped a photo, then gave him his meal. He's since learned that mama isn't food...but i still don't trust him lol

[jaleely]

Anyway, i would imagine the reaction would be the same from a good envenomation from a garter as they have the same gland that produces the venom.

[Selkielass]

I've seen more severe reaction shots from hognose bites than from garters- I think hognose venom is more potent, or more effectively delivered if those rear fangs get engaged.

Some beekeepers become sensitized to bee venom- it is an increasing reaction of the body immune system to the proteins in the venom.
Other beekeepers reactions decrease, and they eventually develop some degree of immunity. (Less swelling and itching, less pain although the sting itself still hurts.

[d_virginiana]

I've heard of some people becoming allergic to garter bites. Would the allergic reaction just look like envenomation, or does it have different symptoms?

[ConcinusMan]

Anyway, i would imagine the reaction would be the same from a good envenomation from a garter

Not really. The worst reaction I've see was Chantel's reaction and it's not nearly as bad as the hognose reaction. From garter bites, I've only experienced itching, slight burning sensation and redness similar to a mild allergic reaction. No real swelling or pain, and the reaction only happens from feeding response bites with lots of chewing and salivation. Never had a reaction to defensive bites, even if they break the skin. Also, the reaction goes away within an hour if you just wash the broken skin.

[ConcinusMan]

You should have seen the big purple bruise on my thumb that time Cee Cee decided she was a rattlesnake and jumped across the tank and struck me really hard. In the book I was talking about, the author said that the person who was bitten by the garter was bitten several times over a period of time before the systemic reaction occurred. It was also a child. But, it makes it sound as though our bodies hold the venom somehow.

I think your bruising was from anticoagulant properties of garter saliva, rather than a result of Duvernoy's secretions. Those are usually reserved for struggling prey during feeding. Our bodies don't "hold the venom" but produce histamine and antibodies to fight it. So, the next time you get bit, you could have a more severe reaction resulting in anaphylaxis. That's what usually happens with copperhead bites too. First time is usually not fatal. Second time in your life will probably kill you but it's not the venom that kills, it's your body's reaction to it that can kill. (anaphylactic shock)

Hognose owners should have an "epipen" (Epinephrine Auto-Injector) handy, especially if they have already been bitten and had a reaction before.