What Garter Do I Have?

[adamanteus]

Like I say...It looks like a perfectly healthy full grown male sirtalis!

[Nova89]

I was also thinking maybe it had a calcium defiency and that's why it didn't grow so a few weeks ago I bought a calcium powder supplement. It's main diet was pinkies, but you know pinkies don't have strong developed bones and a lot of calcium, so I also upgraded it to fuzzies since they have more developed bones.

[adamanteus]

Nova, I don't understand why you think it's ill. Am I missing something?

[Nova89]

Nova, I don't understand why you think it's ill. Am I missing something?

Lol i don't think it's ill at all. I think it's a healthy snake. I take very good care of it and keep the cage clean. He get's fresh water and good food.

[Nova89]

Like I say...It looks like a perfectly healthy full grown male sirtalis!

For some reason I think it's a female. Maybe because I want it to be a female. If i take a closer pic of the cloaca would that help a lot??? If so, the pics wouldnt be available until about Saturday/Sunday because I just fed HER and I dont like bothering HER after SHE eats.

[Cazador]

You would think it would look bigger after each shed but that is not the case at all. It did seem to get longer though...

Mass (weight) increases disproportionately with length, so if you're concerned about its growth, you could buy a scale and keep tabs on it that way. Specifically, mass cubed is proportional to length. I doubt you're going to get much more growth out of it though because it's probably a male. If you wanted to be sure, you could submit a clear, close-up of the vent area, like KitKat did, here:



This is a female, but its characteristics are exaggerated because it was probably within minutes of deficating.

Rick

P.S. I'm pretty happy with this scale (Pro Scale 300 Gram Pocket Scale).

[GarterGuy]

Well still not entirely sure of the species......I'm guessing though if you got it in a petstore it's an Eastern (T.s.sirtalis). As far as the sex, still not sure on that one. As far as the growth thing.....it's probably an adult snake and isn't really going to grow anymore. Snakes don't only shed to "grow", they also shed to replace damaged or worn scales as time goes on as well. Also the growth will be slight or barely noticeable for a full grown adult. My 5.5ft. PI King sheds usually about 5 times a year or more, but hasn't gotten any bigger in the last 5yrs. I've had her.
Roy

[sschind]

Its just something I said in passing, as said its probably not scientificly true, I think someone mentioned it to me a while back.Again thanks for the response on that one to blow it out of the water

Well, for the most part I think this is false, but I do think there is some degree of truth to it. Last year I hatched out 7 Arizona Mt Kingsnakes. Since my adult pair is getting up there in age (13 years) and this was the very first pair of snakes I ever owned and I figured I would hold back a pair. For the first 3 months I kept them in identical deli cups and fed them all the same. Then I picked out the pair I wanted to keep and moved them to larger quarters for display. I still feed them the same but the pair I moved are probably about 25% larger. I have also seen some pretty remarkable growth spurts by animals, who seemed to have stopped growing, once they were moved to large enclosures. I can not explain it, and I would never go so far as to say they will only grow to the size of their tank, And I would never suggest to anyone that they keep their snakes in too small of a cage simply in an attempt to keep it small but I do believe that a snake in a small cage will not grow as large as the same snake in a larger cage if all other aspects are kept the same.

As far as fish go, I read about an experiment Jack Wattley had done with discus in which he concluded that it was not tank size but deterioration of water quality that limits fish size. As a fish grows it produces more watse. If you do not increase your water changes the water quality will decrease and the fish growth will slow or even stop. If you increase your water changes however you can keep the fish growing up to a point. I think you could raise a 12" Oscar in a 20 gallon tank if you did enough water changes. I wouldn't recommend it but I think it could be done.

Steve

[Cazador]

Hi Steve,

Here are a few references to scientific studies that back up my claims about fish density affecting growth patterns. If I were to choose only one to read, it would be the Rose article. They're basically saying that changing water more frequently cuts down on stress hormones, improves water quality (pH, ammonia, etc.) and ultimately enhances growth and survival. However, crowding reduces growth rates independent of food availability, water quality, and so on.

Rick


Bolasina S, Tagawa M, Yamashita Y, & Tanaka M. 2006. Effects of stocking density on growth, digestive enzyme activity and cortisol level in larvae and juveniles of Japanese flounder, Paralichthyes olivaceus. Aquaculture. 259:432-443.

Ellis T, North B, Scott AP, Bromage NR, Porter M & Gadd D. 2002. The relationships between density and welfare in farmed rainbow trout. Journal of Fish Biology 61:493-531.

Ewing RD & Ewing SK. 1995. Review of the effects of rearing density on the survival to adulthood for Pacific salmon. Progressive Fish-Culturist 57:1-25.

Rose KA, Cowan Jr. JH, Winemiller KO, Myers RA, & Hillborn R. 2001. Compensatory density dependence in fish populations: importance, controversy, understanding, and prognosis. Fish and Fisheries. 2:293-327.

[sschind]

Hi Steve,

Here are a few references to scientific studies that back up my claims about fish density affecting growth patterns. If I were to choose only one to read, it would be the Rose article. They're basically saying that changing water more frequently cuts down on stress hormones, improves water quality (pH, ammonia, etc.) and ultimately enhances growth and survival. However, crowding reduces growth rates independent of food availability, water quality, and so on.

Rick

Are they referring to crowding as in many fish per tank or as in 1 fish in a small tank. I think there is a difference. If the former I agree, too many fish causes reduced growth rates no matter how much you feed and clean. On the other hand, unlimited food availability and a continuous water flow will allow for pretty large size fish in a pretty small tank.